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Old 11-17-2008, 04:04 PM   #16
Robin Lumsden
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I think Bernhard Frank may still be in the land of the living.

He was certainly alive a couple of years ago.
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:15 PM   #17
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Great looking ring JR! These rings are true works of art IMO.
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Old 12-30-2008, 12:42 AM   #18
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The Real question IS... is this a stolen ring, or was it legally acquired? If stolen... could JR be litigated against for its return, if it was one of the items illegally acquired by the american in question by a five fingered discount, then sold under the table.
Maybe they waited till he died to sell the ring. Although that Doesnt mean the rings out of the woods.( Yerger might know thru the ss association if hes still alive.)
Worse case senarios , are : If this is a stolen ring ,and the estate found out its present location , it could be a very expensive litigation, if he has a family, and they persue the issue, now that its turned up.
There was a guy i heard about that tried to sell hitler silverware in the berlin newspaper in the 60's or 70s and I just recall...he was sued twice by the german govt only to lose it all,as it was considered personal property, not war booty, and also had to pay court costs.
Was this ring another item not noticed to be stolen at the time? I feel bad if this is so for the old guy, and i feel the guys name should be posted who was doing the fake documentary. Any attorneys care to share opinions on the subject? I wouldnt think there are many here that are into international law, so they may not have an answer, but its an interesting subject not often encountered.
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Old 12-30-2008, 02:45 PM   #19
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Let's see some closeups of the inside engraving.
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Old 12-30-2008, 03:52 PM   #20
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i might be wrong but is not a lot of the stuff people have stolen off
german soliders when they were captured. were they not striped of all
personnal belongiengs . i do not want to offend anyone on this
forum but if you look deep into what you have some stuff might fall
into this catorgy
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:02 PM   #21
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When the post mentioned "stolen", I believe they meant stolen POST-WAR. Now let's see a closeup of the inside engraving.
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:47 PM   #22
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On the question of legal action, unless the chain of custody was verified, the fact that Frank is a common last name, and the fact that SS records are incomplete, it would be virtually impossible to prove which Frank it was issued to. Closeup pics of inside engraving, bitte?
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:19 PM   #23
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If we stick to the theme stolen.... According to international laws, personal belongings were NOT allowed to be "Liberated" by the winning party. Just to clarify facts forgotten by the Allies. Be aware, Im not accusing Americans and Brits for taking war throphys, Im only tired of the ignorence of international agreements, conventions and laws.

Best regards, Tom
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:19 PM   #24
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I think the "stolen" reference was due to a recent theft of items from living SS officer Bernhard Frank, though I may be wrong. The ring on this thread was discussed recently on this forum under "One For The Book" on Nov. 14. With all due respect to JR, I'm not particularly fond of this ring, and as I mentioned in that post, I feel it should be discussed further. It would be nice to see closeups of the inside inscription.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:42 PM   #25
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For anyone interested, the "Frank" ring was papered "bad" by Don Boyle.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:45 PM   #26
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And the same goes for the "de-named" ring with no inscription - also papered "bad" by Don Boyle.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgstandard View Post
For anyone interested, the "Frank" ring was papered "bad" by Don Boyle.

Hello Josias,

and thanks for the update

Best

Ric
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:22 PM   #28
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"For anyone interested, the "Frank" ring was papered "bad" by Don Boyle."

That's very disturbing news.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgstandard View Post
For anyone interested, the "Frank" ring was papered "bad" by Don Boyle.
If this ring was examined and determined to be a fake....and is in FACT a fake, I would consider that one of most important collector related bits of information to hit the HR community in a couple of decades! I wonder why the lack of apparent interest?

If you recall and or go back to the orignal thread, around the 14th-15th of Dec 08, you and I expressed some serious and specifc doubts about the originality of this ring.

I would be interested to know what the disposition of the ring was and where it originated. It seems like a load of crap for something like this to debut and then drop off of the face of the earth with no one saying anything more about it, like it never existed.

I have seen a handfull of similar rings from some "big" dealers over the last 3 or 4 years that I have had serious doubts about...because die struck features were in the wrong place and features were on these rings that never existed on the originals!! These were all 5 figure rings and all sold or dropped off the radar when questioned....

If we now finally have the 'Super Fake" HR being slipped into the collecting community, I know that I would like to hear from anyone with more information.
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Old 02-07-2009, 01:03 PM   #30
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The silence speaks louder than words...
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