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Opinions on ww1 gm15 gas mask
Old 06-04-2016, 05:32 AM   #1
hagen.191
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Default Opinions on ww1 gm15 gas mask

Hi folks. This nice set came today. Is anyone able to read the markings on the mask? One means "Prüfstempel" but the other one is hard to read. The neck strap seems to have been field modified. Is the colour of the can original?














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Old 06-04-2016, 08:21 PM   #2
Hans K.
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It's a model 1917 Gummimaske (Rahmenmaske). The head straps are the coiled spring variant which was first introduced early in 1917, identical to what would be used on the GM17 leather mask. The faded Prüfungsstelle (Testing area/agency) stamp along with the long series of letters looks like stamps I've seen on other late model German Gummimasken. At first I thought they might be Austrian issue stamps.The reason for this is the canister (assuming it originally belonged with the mask). It is very interesting but my first impression was that it's certainly not German. It resembles a simplified Austro-Hungarian variant but even so I've never seen this exact canister before. The filter is the 11-11 type which was used (roughly) until the Spring of 1917. It looks German made to me even though the markings are rather sparse. Maybe someone else knows more about this odd canister and could enlighten us.

Hans

Edit: the neck strap hasn't been modified. Those white tapes are often attached.

Last edited by Hans K.; 06-04-2016 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 06-05-2016, 01:04 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans K. View Post
It's a model 1917 Gummimaske (Rahmenmaske). The head straps are the coiled spring variant which was first introduced early in 1917, identical to what would be used on the GM17 leather mask. The faded Prüfungsstelle (Testing area/agency) stamp along with the long series of letters looks like stamps I've seen on other late model German Gummimasken. At first I thought they might be Austrian issue stamps.The reason for this is the canister (assuming it originally belonged with the mask). It is very interesting but my first impression was that it's certainly not German. It resembles a simplified Austro-Hungarian variant but even so I've never seen this exact canister before. The filter is the 11-11 type which was used (roughly) until the Spring of 1917. It looks German made to me even though the markings are rather sparse. Maybe someone else knows more about this odd canister and could enlighten us.

Hans

Edit: the neck strap hasn't been modified. Those white tapes are often attached.
Thank you a lot Hans. Your explanation is fantastic as always when it comes to german ww1 masks. Indeed you are right cause this Set came from Italy and was found im Alpenvorland so it probably was in use from KUK. Again a big thanks to you!

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Old 06-05-2016, 04:59 PM   #4
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Very nice gummimask and indeed for the Austrian army.
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Old 06-05-2016, 05:03 PM   #5
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The J. McQueen Beaupaume tag is a bit confusing. What's the connection there?
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:43 PM   #6
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The tag looks to have been added at a museum as some sort of accession/property numbering.

My first impression was that this was Austrian, as Hans said, based on the look of the can. The lid appears similar in some respects to that of the stepped cans. The Austrians did use several patterns of cans. I have another type that different from this and the stepped variety.

The perplexing part is the lack of K.u.K. stamps on the mask or the filter canister.

Chip
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
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The tag looks to have been added at a museum as some sort of accession/property numbering.

My first impression was that this was Austrian, as Hans said, based on the look of the can. The lid appears similar in some respects to that of the stepped cans. The Austrians did use several patterns of cans. I have another type that different from this and the stepped variety.

The perplexing part is the lack of K.u.K. stamps on the mask or the filter canister.

Chip
I do have three A-H canisters, one of which is the stepped version, but although the two simplified versions do somewhat resemble hagen191's can, they differ in certain details. When looking at it from the perspective of German design, the can in question shares a confusing combination of early and late traits. Neither the can nor the lid interior are coated in black paint, like the very early Gummimaske cans, and the can has no toggle latch for the lid and yet the carrying strap attachments resemble the thick gauge wire versions found on very late Gummimaske and all GM17 cans (visible bottom right in lower pic), and not the flat sheet steel attachments I have seen on Austrian examples so far. Chip, do your Austrian cans compare in similar ways?
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Last edited by Hans K.; 06-05-2016 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 06-06-2016, 07:49 AM   #8
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...another "early" feature hagen191's can has is the absence of some sort of wire cage or other device inside the lid to help compress the mask into the canister when closing the lid, as seen on these Austrian cans below. The very early German M16 canisters also lack this trait - left can in lower picture.
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Old 06-06-2016, 01:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans K. View Post
...another "early" feature hagen191's can has is the absence of some sort of wire cage or other device inside the lid to help compress the mask into the canister when closing the lid, as seen on these Austrian cans below. The very early German M16 canisters also lack this trait - left can in lower picture.
A nice canister collection you have there .
Here is my second gm15 that came from Italy. The mask is an earlier model than the one i posted before. But similar to the first mask it is missing a KUK stamp. One stamp faded away. I compared both cans. The strap seems to be a reproduction cause its too new. Your opinions on it would be nice Hans.






















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Old 06-06-2016, 06:44 PM   #10
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The second set is 100% German. It's possibly a mix and match group though. The mask is a nice 1st model 1916 Rahmenmaske. The filter is a 11-C-11 dating to the end of 1917. The canister is a very nice example of a hard to find early Bereitschaftsbüchse with the early instructions inside the lid. You can tell it's early because the instructions don't have a separate subsection mentioning the Rahmenmaske. All of these early canisters I've found - 6 so far of which I still have 4 - came with the M1915 Gummimaske (Bandmaske) and filters dating from between February to April 1916. That's not to say that these weren't issued with Rahmenmasken during the transition period from one model to the next. As you've pointed out the strap is clearly a new repro. The 1917 date doesn't correspond with the early can and by 1917 they were using paper cloth straps. It's a nice group.
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Old 06-07-2016, 02:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans K. View Post
The second set is 100% German. It's possibly a mix and match group though. The mask is a nice 1st model 1916 Rahmenmaske. The filter is a 11-C-11 dating to the end of 1917. The canister is a very nice example of a hard to find early Bereitschaftsbüchse with the early instructions inside the lid. You can tell it's early because the instructions don't have a separate subsection mentioning the Rahmenmaske. All of these early canisters I've found - 6 so far of which I still have 4 - came with the M1915 Gummimaske (Bandmaske) and filters dating from between February to April 1916. That's not to say that these weren't issued with Rahmenmasken during the transition period from one model to the next. As you've pointed out the strap is clearly a new repro. The 1917 date doesn't correspond with the early can and by 1917 they were using paper cloth straps. It's a nice group.
Its better to study your explications than reading a book. A thousand thanks for that. It would be awesome to see your ww1 mask collection!

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Old 06-13-2016, 02:39 PM   #12
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Hans,

Actually, none of my cans are the same as your three. Your stepped can appears to be a two-piece construction, while both of mine are one piece, without the seam. My third one is a taller model, perhaps a German can, with a leather neck loop. Here are some photos. They are not the best, so if you have any questions, let me know.

Chip



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Old 06-13-2016, 02:45 PM   #13
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Old 06-15-2016, 09:39 PM   #14
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Very interesting canisters Chip. Whereas the German cans show a distinct linear evolution in their design, for the most part, the many differences evident in the Austrian cans seem to be more along the lines of manufacturer variations. I do have one question about the can on the left, which looks like a standard German GM17 model - aside from the lid's interior not being black and the leather straps. Which model of mask came with it, a Gummimaske or a Lederschutzmaske? If it is a Leder I would love to see it.
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Old 06-15-2016, 09:59 PM   #15
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Bapaume is in northern France . Rob
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