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Old 07-12-2017, 07:20 AM   #16
ian alderman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTaylor View Post
A few photos: Pz Kasten 20 inside and out and Fu 5 radio frame being constructed.

Well, that's not going to work... the procedure for attaching images described in the FAQ section of the Forum does not work as described, unless my ability to follow instructions has failed.

BTaylor
I think I am right in saying that you need to have a certain grade of membership to post pictures.

Alternatively, you could provide a link to an external picture host, (Flickr, Imgur, etc).

Ian
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Encore presentation
Old 07-12-2017, 09:44 AM   #17
BTaylor
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Default Encore presentation

Thanks Ian. A closer look at the membership status cleared it up.

So here are a couple of photos of the Pz Kasten 20 and my FU 5 radio frame project. I have other photos, but want to see how the attachment process works. The frame is now almost complete, with phenolic - essentially Bakelite - sliders/spacers as per originals. There are leaf springs which clamp the radio cases in place. Getting these tempered into a spring is a bit of a challenge. There is a lot of minor detail variation on original frames. Latches on the ends (not yet installed in the photo) are the same as many models of radio lid covers and are currently on eBay as repros.

IMG_0141post.jpg

IMG_20170414_153223post.jpg
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:45 AM   #18
Funksammler
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Sorry to be bringing bad news, but the interior of the Pz.Kasten.20 is not right. Somebody tried to replicate the circuitry from period components, but the layout is different and incomplete (some of the wiring is missing, as is the relay).

Compare this to the original layout:



It may be possible to get some functionality, but to get it right would require a complete rebuild I'm afraid....

regards,

Funksammler
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Paperweight
Old 07-12-2017, 12:24 PM   #19
BTaylor
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Looks as though I now have a high-end paperweight! Thanks for the quick and helpful reply. No one to blame but myself. This is something I should have done some real research on. As you say, it does seem like someone tried to make it look believable.
Making it function in any useful way is probably not practical.
Maybe another genuine - inside and out - unit in the future, maybe not...

B Taylor
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Old 07-12-2017, 01:19 PM   #20
Funksammler
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Commiserations, happens to all of us... The frame is looking good though!

regards,

Funksammler
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Pz Kasten 23a
Old 07-13-2017, 10:47 AM   #21
BTaylor
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Default Pz Kasten 23a

My on line research suggests that the Panzerkasten 23a is a unit intended to operate with the Fusprech series of radios, having a labeled internal jumper to select the model to which it is connected.
So it would seem that these were not used with the FU 5 setup at all in any sort of vehicle (SP artillery, etc.)?
Can anyone confirm this or add a comment?

Attached are two photos of my 1944 10 W.S.c This is the one which was apparently almost totally rewired. This was early on in my analysis of the wiring. There is a small non-original component, labeled a "heater" at the upper left which has since been removed.

Aside from several missing resistors and wiring errors, there is a missing choke. For those who may know something about this radio, it is a Drossel, part number "53". This seems like a fairly simple part that I can find new-made if I can determine the specs. Why was it removed? Who knows?

After tedious examination, it seems that the wiring was 98% correct. That may sound pretty good, but on a radio it might as well have been zero.

B Taylor
IMG_20170310_193106post.jpg

IMG_20170311_090906post.jpg
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Old 07-13-2017, 12:37 PM   #22
Funksammler
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Indeed the 23a was used with the Funksprechers, it was mainly used in armoured reconaisance vehicles. It was not used with the Fu5 set.

I need to look at the schematic to explain what choke 53 is for, generally they block HF currents while letting through DC, so you often find them in the circuits supplying the anode and grid bias voltages.

regards,

Funksammler
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Number 53 Drossel
Old 07-13-2017, 01:31 PM   #23
BTaylor
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Default Number 53 Drossel

Funksammler -

If you are going to take time to look at this issue - wonderful. I should point out that in my posted photo this choke seems to be there. But actually someone removed it and moved the transformer normally mounted below (that is "57") up to this position. I know from the labels on it.
"53" should only have two connections. One is incoming switched 12 V and the other goes out to the plus side of the Mikrofon and also through a 40 Ohm resister to transformer "57". This is in the area where the "yellow stripe" modification changes occur, but I don't have that schematic at my current location. It may not be involved...

BTaylor
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Old 07-13-2017, 02:24 PM   #24
Funksammler
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On the "Gelbstrich" transmitter also, inductor DR 53 connects the + H to the microphone connection. Transformer U57 is the Microphone transformer, the primary of U57 is connected to this same microphone contact via the 40 Ohm resistor and the other side of the primary is earthed. The secondary winding of U57 connects via a 20 K resistor to the Empf/Tg/Tn switch. On Tf is gets grounded, in the other modes it gets a -70V negative blocking voltage. The other side of the secondary of U57 goes via the mode switch to the steering grid of the modulator tube and to the "z. Empf" socket.

Dr 53 prevents the voice signal from entering the 12V supply circuit. It is 2000 windings of 0.2 mm copper wire with a resistance of 100 Ohm.

regards,

Funksammler

Last edited by Funksammler; 07-13-2017 at 02:30 PM.
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DR53 and more...
Old 07-18-2017, 07:57 AM   #25
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Default DR53 and more...

Funksammler and all -

This is enormously helpful, of course. In addition to spotting incorrect wiring, I am contrasting the original pre-war schematics with the "Gelbstrich" alterations. It is a headache in a box.
Might anyone have an idea of the inductance value of "DR53" or some likely value based on its purpose and location? Trying to find a new-made choke of a size that is usable and 100 Ohm isn't easy, but the choices of inductance value - Henrys - also vary widely.

Currently analyzing the clever but nightmarish four position, nine level switch. Had to make some sketches. Way too much to retain in my head.

B. Taylor
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Panzerkasten 20
Old 10-01-2017, 08:31 AM   #26
BTaylor
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Default Panzerkasten 20

Back on the forum after some absence. Needing advice (again).
Recently got a Panzerkasten 20 in very good shape inside and out.
While the schematic for the unit is in the lid, specs for the components are harder to find than for radios.
Funksammler cautioned that a certain bad capacitor would ruin the transformer if the unit were powered up. My take on this is that it would be capacitor "1", but am clueless as to the proper capacitance. Of course I can check if it is shorted out. Thoughts?
Also, completed the dual Fu 5 mounting frame. It is probably off slightly in dimensions in spots, but is an overall success. Making the leaf springs for the clamps was a challenge. Bakelite sliders (phenolic) as the originals appeared to have. Can post photos. Making another single radio frame as time allows.
Working on a 10w sender c. Ugly face plate with missing "Feind hort mit" tag. I made replicas. Wrong knobs. Also made. Internally pristine. The least disturbed I have seen. Still need a Panzer to put them in...

B Taylor
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Old 10-01-2017, 10:57 AM   #27
Yuri D.
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Are there values on the components that you can clearly read?
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Capacitor
Old 10-01-2017, 12:10 PM   #28
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Yuri -

Well, duh, the capacitor has printed specs down the side that can be read with a good light. It is 330 microFarad 4/8V- (4 to 8 Volt ?)
Also Elyt - Kl.1 (electrolytic class 1 ?)
Z Nr. 65840
rom (manufactuere's code?)

I intend to unsolder the plus lead and measure the capacitance with my meter.

Thanks for reminding me that all original German components are typically labeled.

Regards,
BTaylor
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PZ 20 and more
Old Yesterday, 09:13 AM   #29
BTaylor
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Default PZ 20 and more

Turns out that the PZ 20 was functional as received. I suppose this can happen! Tested output transformer capacitors and others as recommended by Funksammler. All good.

Wish I had 220V 50Hz power, as I could use one of the Wehrmacht tube testers seen on the market.

I now have a 10W Sender c with totally undisturbed internals, other than some shipping damage that was repairable. Can't seem to get any transmission. Everything lights up, for what that is worth, and there is a detectable increased loading on the umformer when the Oberstrich button is depressed, but nothing on the ammeter. I have a 2 meter improvised antenna (ungrounded copper tube) and a good ground. Two other 10WS's have virtually identical non-performance. No reason to be suspicious of the power supply.
I have a bunch of tubes. They could all be bad? Any suggestions as to what I might check with a volt/ohm meter. Other than a capacitance meter my most sophisticated test device. Owning radios does not make me a "radio man" quite yet.
Will post pictures of completed dual radio frame with and without the radios soon. I am currently making a single frame. (P10UE)

B Taylor
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Old Today, 03:21 AM   #30
Funksammler
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Congrats on your panzer kasten, at least the person that rebuild it got it to work...

The RPG/4 can run on all sorts of mains power supply voltages, you will still need a special adaptor to test the RL12P35 though....

When you hear the loading on the power supply, it seems that the anode current is flowing in the tubes, I suspect your problem is antenna tuning.

The transmitter needs accurate antenna tuning for the antenna current to run, this is a very narrow setpoint. Easiest way the test is to use a artificial antenna (use a 12 V, 10 W lightbulb), even if your current meter is defective, the lamp will glow at the correct setpoint. Test at various points on the frequency scale to see if you can get the lamp to glow.

regards,

Funksammler
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