wehrmacht awards


Go Back   Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums > Wehrmacht Era Militaria > Police & Civil Organizations Forum

Police & Civil Organizations Forum Police, RAD, Luftschutz, Org. Todt and other civil support organizations

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Female Police Auxiliary
Old 04-13-2019, 07:13 PM   #1
djpool
Association Member
 
djpool's Avatar
 
djpool is offline
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,673
Default Female Police Auxiliary

Normally I don't collect police items but this jacket recently popped up on the Collectors guild site. One of my side interests is uniforms etc of female auxiliaries. Generally I stick to Army and LW but on ocassion I stray. I decided to go after this jacket because a few years back I purchased a pair of female pants from Mike Davis. The color suggested police but army was also a contender. The pics are from the Collectors guild. The jacket is in the freezer getting moth proofed. I'll take additional pictures with the pants. Regards Jim
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg B4B8984C-D803-49B5-8119-5B82C91FBC01.jpeg (174.4 KB, 175 views)
File Type: jpeg BC0040B8-80C4-4A6D-80FE-9B05B04F274F.jpeg (93.2 KB, 174 views)
File Type: jpeg 6B4CE328-70FE-4356-AD5F-D47772BE72B6.jpeg (138.6 KB, 175 views)
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2019, 01:34 AM   #2
W.Unland
Association Member
 
W.Unland is offline
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 4,472
Default

Very nice later war female police personnel jacket. I have never seen one offered before. Shows the use of the full sized white sleeve eagle as per war time regulations.

Bill Unland
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2019, 07:43 AM   #3
djpool
Association Member
 
djpool's Avatar
 
djpool is offline
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,673
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Unland View Post
Very nice later war female police personnel jacket. I have never seen one offered before. Shows the use of the full sized white sleeve eagle as per war time regulations.

Bill Unland
Bill,

Thanks for commenting. This is also the first Police one I've seen for sale. I'm glad I bought it. The jacket style is pretty universal among all military, para military and civilian organizations but rare to find. It was based on civilian clothing of the time and probably worn after the war. I'm close to having a complete uniform (suit). Just need an original hat. I can probably find original shoes etc. Shirt and tie will most likely be reproduction. Jim
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2019, 11:24 AM   #4
JoeW
Member
 
JoeW's Avatar
 
JoeW is offline
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: somewhere
Posts: 6,341
Default

I think the sleeve eagle has been added as period photos show the Helferin eagle to be the small white size on the lower left sleeve. Also, I would have doubts about a sewn in tailor label in a standard issue factory produced Helferin jacket.

Last edited by JoeW; 04-14-2019 at 11:51 AM.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2019, 12:00 PM   #5
djpool
Association Member
 
djpool's Avatar
 
djpool is offline
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,673
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeW View Post
I think the sleeve eagle has been added as period photos show the Helferin eagle to be the small white size on the lower left sleeve. Also, I would have doubts about a sewn in tailor label in a standard issue factory produced Helferin jacket.
Whether the eagle was added postwar can be debated. But it is set into the wool very nicely. As I understand it early jackets had the eagle lower on the sleeve. Later on the eagle was placed higher up. The stamp and label look good. I can't explain why there are both present. This is the first time I've encountered it. But there aren't a lot of female items available to make a definitive call. Jim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1CEAD29C-68E0-4018-BFA8-70265CCCFA80.jpg (85.4 KB, 136 views)
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2019, 12:02 PM   #6
Dave C.
Moderator
 
Dave C.'s Avatar
 
Dave C. is offline
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,999
Default

Looks like you may have found the past thread I was thinking about where it showed females wearing the pol sleeve higher up on the sleeve. Still these eagle appear to be the small lower sleeve examples moved up, comparable size is certainly noticed in the pic you posted.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=female+police

Another good past thread
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=female+police
__________________
Interested in the Gendarmerie - Schutzpolizei - Gemeinden - Feuerschutzpolizei - Wasserschutzpolizei - Etc. Looking For Anything Polizei Related!
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-14-2019, 04:17 PM   #7
djpool
Association Member
 
djpool's Avatar
 
djpool is offline
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,673
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave C. View Post
Looks like you may have found the past thread I was thinking about where it showed females wearing the pol sleeve higher up on the sleeve. Still these eagle appear to be the small lower sleeve examples moved up, comparable size is certainly noticed in the pic you posted.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=female+police

Another good past thread
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=female+police

Thank you for posting the threads. I am not a collector of police items, so I checked everything I could find on the WAF. Female police info and photos are pretty slim. Patrick Ott (gran Sasso) collects female photos etc and he stated how rare they are. So far no one has said the eagle or jacket are fake, so I'm happy with it. She will fit in with her companions. Jim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 50076B2E-8CD3-4861-870A-CAE85F4A043E.jpg (107.9 KB, 126 views)
File Type: jpg 2757DB47-0BBC-45DF-B820-109B59DAA812.jpg (67.5 KB, 126 views)
File Type: jpg 5703B50E-0EAC-4CE5-A640-7FCBADCE44E0.jpg (66.9 KB, 123 views)
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-15-2019, 07:38 AM   #8
W.Unland
Association Member
 
W.Unland is offline
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 4,472
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeW View Post
I think the sleeve eagle has been added as period photos show the Helferin eagle to be the small white size on the lower left sleeve. Also, I would have doubts about a sewn in tailor label in a standard issue factory produced Helferin jacket.
Joe,

You are correct for the 1936 regulations but I believe standard sized white eagle was specified late in the war. Here is a photo in wear. It looks full sized to me, not one of the small eagles.

Regards,
Bill U
Attached Images
File Type: jpg woman.jpg (13.1 KB, 119 views)

Last edited by W.Unland; 04-15-2019 at 07:53 AM.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-15-2019, 07:53 AM   #9
wilhelm Saris
Member
 
wilhelm Saris's Avatar
 
wilhelm Saris is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: in the south of the Netherlands (between Venlo and Eindhoven), near the German and Belgium border
Posts: 2,533
Default

1936? Would like to see this regulation!
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-15-2019, 11:13 AM   #10
djpool
Association Member
 
djpool's Avatar
 
djpool is offline
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,673
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Unland View Post
Joe,

You are correct for the 1936 regulations but I believe standard sized white eagle was specified late in the war. Here is a photo in wear. It looks full sized to me, not one of the small eagles.

Regards,
Bill U



Bill,


Thank you for posting the photo! It certainly looks like a big bird to me. I looked closely and the jacket and there may be an explanation for the tailor tag. The small internal pocket may have been added later. The lining material appears to be different. Just food for thought. Without other examples to compare it with its just speculation. Here are a few pics with the pants. Colors a decent match. Warm regards Jim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_2436.jpg (109.4 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2437.jpg (154.7 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2438.jpg (200.7 KB, 104 views)
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-15-2019, 04:36 PM   #11
W.Unland
Association Member
 
W.Unland is offline
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 4,472
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilhelm Saris View Post
1936? Would like to see this regulation!
Are you saying you want the regulation stipulating the small cuff eagle worn by female personnel in the pre-war years, if so I can try to reference it for you?

William Unland
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-15-2019, 11:17 PM   #12
W.Unland
Association Member
 
W.Unland is offline
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 4,472
Default

From what I get from some sources, the large white eagle was introduced for female auxiliaries when the standardized war time police insignia were adopted in 1944.

Personally I believe few were put into use, just like the bevo gray eagles, and many have survived in unused condition. These white eagles are very common and almost always unused. Since the Verwaltungspolizei had very few NCO ranks, and even fewer of them were uniformed, the large number of extant white eagles would suggest another use. Some suggest they were the embroidered version of the gray woven standardized war time insignia, personally it makes more sense to me that they were intended for use by female personnel.

Indeed, most females retained the small cuff eagles dating from the original police refs of 1936, but as the photo I posted shows some full sized eagles were indeed worn high on the sleeve as on the tunic that started this discussion.

Bill Unland
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-16-2019, 03:22 AM   #13
wilhelm Saris
Member
 
wilhelm Saris's Avatar
 
wilhelm Saris is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: in the south of the Netherlands (between Venlo and Eindhoven), near the German and Belgium border
Posts: 2,533
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Unland View Post
Are you saying you want the regulation stipulating the small cuff eagle worn by female personnel in the pre-war years, if so I can try to reference it for you? William Unland
I would like to see the 1936 regulation where it is said uniformed females of the german police had to wear an arm eagle!
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-16-2019, 04:49 PM   #14
W.Unland
Association Member
 
W.Unland is offline
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 4,472
Default

The regulations specified a cuff eagle, is that what you are referencing? I am confused. Are you suggesting that female personnel wee never directed to wear a police eagle insignia? As I stated above the large upper arm worn eagle was not per 1936 regulations, rather 1944. If you are contesting the 1936 cuff worn eagle I will dig out that regulatio.

W. Unland
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-17-2019, 02:07 AM   #15
wilhelm Saris
Member
 
wilhelm Saris's Avatar
 
wilhelm Saris is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: in the south of the Netherlands (between Venlo and Eindhoven), near the German and Belgium border
Posts: 2,533
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Unland View Post
The regulations specified a cuff eagle, is that what you are referencing? I am confused. Are you suggesting that female personnel wee never directed to wear a police eagle insignia? As I stated above the large upper arm worn eagle was not per 1936 regulations, rather 1944. If you are contesting the 1936 cuff worn eagle I will dig out that regulatio.

W. Unland
I understood you had a 1936 regulation for women. Maybe I did not read it correctly!
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump






vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com