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Daggers and Edged Weapons Forum This is the corner of the site where you can talk about daggers, bayonets, swords and knifes of the Wehrmacht and related organizations.

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Old 02-22-2019, 07:53 AM   #196
Mac 66
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I do not think most dagger collectors have the confidence to buy one of these so called 1st model railway daggers going by all the evidence against them & would be much more confident in buying the 2nd model, the dealers that are selling these 1st models are needing to have a long hard re-think on what they are trying to sell for big bucks imo, personally i would rather have a nice early slant gripped army
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:48 AM   #197
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I emailed the Robert Klaas factory and this is what they mainly said - "Unfortunately we are unable to help, we do not have any catalogues, brochures or other documents from the time of the Third Reich. No one in our company is an expert for these kind of knives - we are not interested in". So the mystery will continue.

Russ.
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:04 AM   #198
wilhelm Saris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog View Post
I emailed the Robert Klaas factory and this is what they mainly said - "Unfortunately we are unable to help, we do not have any catalogues, brochures or other documents from the time of the Third Reich. No one in our company is an expert for these kind of knives - we are not interested in". So the mystery will continue. Russ.
Answers like this are given by factories since the sixties. This is my opinion and experience. In the early seventies I wrote tens and tens of letters to manufacturers for metal insignia. The answer was as above, or they said I should contact Assmann, Linden and so on (they neither could help me out). Hardly any satisfying response came.
It was found out by me that even the city-archive did not have proper catalogues. I did own more as what they could offer. I was glad that I could speak with older employees and from them I did learn a lot. I also learned that dealers from all over, came to visit and asked them to reproduce. So what happened with metal insignia, surely also will have happened with daggers and other items!

Cataloques and regulations often say more than the "blabla" and twaddle from fraudulent dealers and authors, that have invented lots of so-called "mystery things"!
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:12 AM   #199
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As the fittings and blades cannot be dismissed as fake, and there is no documented record of their existence, could these daggers (Klaas examples) just be - Post war manufactured by Klaas with a cheaper made black material grip painted white to sell as an army dagger immediately after the war for the souvenir and collectors market.

This is the only thing I can think of that covers everything like the fittings, grip, blade - with maker mark, and the lack of documentation.

Russ.
Maybe something like this then.
Russ.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:38 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by wilhelm Saris View Post
Answers like this are given by factories since the sixties. This is my opinion and experience. In the early seventies I wrote tens and tens of letters to manufacturers for metal insignia. The answer was as above, or they said I should contact Assmann, Linden and so on (they neither could help me out). Hardly any satisfying response came.
It was found out by me that even the city-archive did not have proper catalogues. I did own more as what they could offer. I was glad that I could speak with older employees and from them I did learn a lot. I also learned that dealers from all over, came to visit and asked them to reproduce. So what happened with metal insignia, surely also will have happened with daggers and other items!

Cataloques and regulations often say more than the "blabla" and twaddle from fraudulent dealers and authors, that have invented lots of so-called "mystery things"!
Some collectors are easily misled into purchasing postwar items both altered originals and even some complete new fakes. Likewise there are dealers some of whom were collectors, others more business oriented, as well as collectors at different levels of experience who find it all too easy to “follow the herd” and don’t like anyone to question their expertise and/or items/sales. Just one example from my more limited time than some in collecting daggers - there was a time when it was common to find items like Luftwaffe daggers with different personalizations like a coat or arms, names etc. on the (often higher quality) government owned examples. Dealers and (most likely) owners fought the idea that what they owned or were selling had been postwar altered - ferociously “tooth and nail”. Arguing that the Luftwaffe had a side business retailing its daggers to its personnel. That was one “mystery” that was solved that exposed a complete lack of knowledge of how the Germans operated by those who had no idea that the Luftwaffe was not a business - just like the rest of the Wehrmacht. My point being there was absolutely nothing that the dealers and/or owners could point at to bolster their arguments - although there were some that made the ridiculous claim that their view was correct "Because there are so many of them". With one of the actually positive things that came out of all the Sturm und Drang being that it greatly slowed/halted the wrecking of original period daggers to make them into something that they were not. Fred
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