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Flag, Pennant and Standarte Forum Wehrmacht, Political and Organizational Standards, flags, and car pennants.

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Old 07-02-2018, 03:57 PM   #91
planet
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Here is another one with unit number which was sold at a German auction in June. Winning bid was 3.300 € plus 23%.
According to the auction house the unit headquarter was in Soest.

I wonder if all flags were first granted with a number before they got their honor name (and may in some cases the number still be beneath the honor name patch then?). Or did most already have their honor name when granted to the unit?
And why does the flag number on this shown flag have no subunit number beneath? Could it be for a headquarter?
Best regards, Thomas
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Old 07-03-2018, 04:45 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet View Post
I wonder if all flags were first granted with a number before they got their honor name (and may in some cases the number still be beneath the honor name patch then?). Or did most already have their honor name when granted to the unit?
And why does the flag number on this shown flag have no subunit number beneath? Could it be for a headquarter? Best regards, Thomas
Practically always first came the number. With many occasions later a name was granted. Cannot yet verify if it was located at Soest, but in the 200 hundreds it was anyway the district of Westfalen-Süd with its headquarters at Dortmund. Soest is quite nearby and so could indeed be for 207.
At this moment I do not have an idea why there is not a unit-number and slash. I have to read the regulations to know if also an Arbeitsgau did have a flag.

According the flag-order from March 3, 1934 (V 2 VII Nr. 3612/34) only an Abteilung should have a flag. Headquarters for an Arbeitsgau are not mentioned.
This in contrary the pennants for cars where a Gauarbeitsführer was authorized for a special form.

As far as I do understand it was either a number, or a name.

Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 07-03-2018 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:25 AM   #93
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Thank You Wim. Your input is always appreciated. Would also be new for me that an Arbeitsgau had its own flag like a HJ Bann-flag, but who knows? Hope You find out in Your documents.
Best regards, Thomas
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:51 AM   #94
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i won this flag, and my winning bid was € 3000.- also get the pole with top.
Still waiting to hold it in my hand - the Auction-House will collect some items near my home for Autumn auction, and deliver it personal to me, end of July.
I will post better pics
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:55 AM   #95
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That was a good buy!
Still wondering why there is no subunit number on that flag. But even more interesting to know if there are still the numbers beneath the patches with the honor names. Maybe someone, who has a flag with honor name could look if there was or still is the number stiched beneath the patch.
Best, Thomas
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:27 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet View Post
Still wondering why there is no subunit number on that flag. But even more interesting to know if there are still the numbers beneath the patches with the honor names. Maybe someone, who has a flag with honor name could look if there was or still is the number stiched beneath the patch.
Best, Thomas
I have not ever seen a honor name beneath a patch. The name always was granted later as when the flag was authorized with number.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:11 PM   #97
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What I meant is if the unit number might still be under the honor name patches in some cases or if they always removed the number before attaching the honor name patch.
Best, Thomas
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:51 PM   #98
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arrived
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:52 PM   #99
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more
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:53 PM   #100
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pole topper
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:02 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilhelm Saris View Post
I have not ever seen a honor name beneath a patch. The name always was granted later as when the flag was authorized with number.
Hi Mr Saris you are right but he asked if possible an unit number is beneath the Ehrennamepatch - because as you see on my flag the number is on the flag and has no patch - so possible the Ehrennamepatch will cover an unit number ?
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Old 07-30-2018, 03:16 PM   #102
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Quote:
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Hi Mr Saris you are right but he asked if possible an unit number is beneath the Ehrennamepatch - because as you see on my flag the number is on the flag and has no patch - so possible the Ehrennamepatch will cover an unit number ?
I checked my material and nothing is mentioned about Gruppe-flags, in spite of the fact Angolia tells about this in "Labor Organizations of the Reich", pages 480-481.
Would like to know where he got his information from. Maybe they were planned, but finally rejected to be used!
In "Beschreibung der Flaggen , Fahnen"and so on from March 3, 1934 it was said: Gruppenstandarten in the way as existing for the SA, are not planned for the RAD.

In "Der Reichsarbeitsdienst, ergänzenden Bestimmungen und Erläuterungen" from 1940 no flags for groups were mentioned (page 205) either.
I have no time to go through all of my RAD material to find out. Maybe later!

Neither anything is said how the honor-patches should be made and positioned. I think the RAD followed the SA in this, but if the old number was removed or what needed to be done,
is a question. No information is included in the "Verordnungsblatt". So-called traditions-patches as noted for the SA, did not exist for the RAD.
There was quite an extensive explanation about honoir-names with orders from January 1936 and February 1938, but this all had to do whoch and what was allowed for names
to be granted. Nothing was noted about manufacturing procedures. Names were granted and could not be changed.

Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 07-30-2018 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 08-02-2018, 01:08 PM   #103
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Hello Wilhelm!

I have photos of flags with honor Name AND unit number on one flag!!!

Regards

Hermann
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Old 08-03-2018, 01:53 AM   #104
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Quote:
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Hello Wilhelm!
I have photos of flags with honor Name AND unit number on one flag!!!
Regards Hermann
Can you show this, please. Is interesting to see!
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RAD flag list updates ...
Old 11-08-2018, 07:59 PM   #105
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Default RAD flag list updates ...

RAD flag list updates ...
OFW
*********** Surviving "Ehrennamen" RAD flags ************
............................Note: (*) = photo confirmed.................................
1. "Hartmann der Degenberger", 8/298 AG-XXIX Zinzendorf, *OFW, WS info.
2. "Ernst Abbe", 6/234 **, AG-XXIII, Waltershausen **, *R
ichard Kindel. ".
3. "Peter Josef Rottmann", 5/244 AG-XXIV, *Peter Whamond, WS info. ***
4. "Werner von Siemens",7/92 AG-IX, *Thomas Johnson, WS info. ***
5. "Lothar Bucher", 5/41, *Spronk, wilhelm Saris (WS) info. ***
6. "Admiral Scheer", 6/163 AG-XVI, granted March 1941; paulj, WS info. ***
7. "Walter von Plettenberg", 9/206 AG-XX, (*), granted March 1941, ". ***
8. "Ordensmeister Walter von Plettenburg", 4/25, ", paulj, WS info. ***
9. "Wewelsburg", 5/161 AG-XVI, granted March 1941, paulj $2250, WS ***
10."Maximilian Schmidt", 5/293 AG-XXIX, Zwiefel, *TW $3495, WS ***
11. "Meister Peter Vischer der Aeltere", 3/282 AG-XXVIII, *OFW, WS info.
12. "Grossherzog Karl August", 3/231 AG-XXIII, *BH $1695, WS info., ex-KJ
13. "Hugo Junkers", 7/310 AG-XXXI, *Angolia/Littlejohn "LOotR", WS info.
14. "Deerk Piening", 4/185 AG-XVIII, ",".
15. "Peter Mühlenberg", 5/176 AG-XVII, ",".
16. "Friedrich Ludwig Jahn", 4/94 AG-IX, ",". ***
17. "Klaus Clemens", 2/318 AG-XXXI, 1931 Commie Killed, BH, WS info.
18. "Hake von Stülpe", 1/92 AG-IX, only one side, *GI, WS info. ***
19. "Wernher der Gartner", 1/294, AG-XXIX, *OFW, WS ***. $1650 or MO.
20. "Manndrenke", 3/70 AG-VII, Schleswig-Holstein, *female service, WS ***
21. "Johann Georg Meindl", 6/295, Massing/Gotholbing**, *Dirkio (post #44).
22. "Feldmarschall Melander", 6/257 **, *Siegi (email). 3300 GBP online.
23. "Johann von Hohenlohe", 6/93**, *Siegi (email). female service
24. "Fritz Pütter", Schirlbach #8/200**, *Siegi (email) female service ***
25. "Graf Haefeler", #1/94**, at Perleberg, WS***, *OFW
26. "Major Hackher", #2/360**, Ag XXXVI,. Steindorf, *Ex-JoeW collection.
27. "
Heinrich v. Fürstenberg", name granted October 1938, 2/263 at
..... Rottenburg or Donaueschingen ***, *Ex-Reichsword collection.
28. "Thomas Trautenberger", 7/105**, *Reichsword post 70/73 photo.
29. "Konradin von Hohenstaufen, 3/262 Ag XXVI , Württemberg**, photo
..... *female service , HH 2013, see post 75 & 76 for photo.
30. "Johann Sebastian Bach",
3/152 at Schirgiswalde, Ag XV (Sachsen) **,
..... *female service , via Lux, 1895,00€ tax inc. S
ee post 81 for photo.
31. "Adalbert Stifter", *
Bill Drumright, GD offered in 2007.
32. "Lohner Bruch", 9/165 at Geschen, Ag XVI (Westfalen-Nord) **,
..... *joeW
post 86 for photo.
33. "207", HQ Dortmund Westfalen-Sud **, *fs posts 98-100, 3K euros.
34. "Berand Jacobsen Karpfanger", 3/173 Neuwerk **, *SteveF t=980976.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: Per April 22, 1941 "Verordnungsblatt für den Reichsarbeitsdienst"
........ 1,456 RAD unit names granted. WS info. Total # RAD units ??? and
** (mentioned in the Verordnungsblatt from March 1941) WS provided info.
*** See posts 55, 56, & 62(WS) for RAD
# & local assignment comments.
**********************************************
.....

Last edited by oldflagswanted; 11-08-2018 at 08:05 PM.
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