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Ratisbon Auction Redux
Old 03-13-2020, 11:56 PM   #1
JoeW
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Default Ratisbon Auction Redux

Wim, I understand why the thread was locked as the exchanges were getting quite testy.

But I had returned to ask a question of Christian J in response to this statement of his. "Old man Deschlers says he's the sole provider at the time of the SS ZA, and the SILBER stamp is the same on other of his pieces. Why wouldnt't they be Deschler products. Outsourcing were massive even back then."

Christian, can you elaborate on the source and time of this statement by Deschler? I am curious the apparent contradiction of his statement by the archive correspondence of November to December 1939 between the RFSS office and Pohl's office, with copies to the NSDAP Reichsleitung and Reichsschatzmeister, concerning the quantity of silver remaining at the firm of Gahr in Munich for the production of SS Ehrenrings, SS Zivilabzeichens and SS-Officer sword fittings. Himmler decided to cease production of the ZA pins at Gahr for the duration of the war in order to keep production of the other items. Why would the different departments concerned be advised that Gahr was producing if in fact the production was supposedly outsourced? And with production of the SS-ZA pins in silver being a not particularly massive production effort that would need "outsourcing", I have my doubts of Deschler's memory or believe he was tooting his own horn.
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Old 03-14-2020, 03:51 AM   #2
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Interview from a 1941 Nürnberg paper.
Here's the link if you can stand Jo's ****posting.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/5ce0bG8fp8o/
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Old 03-14-2020, 04:07 AM   #3
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Though Gahr did probably produce them at some time, as evident of the two types of marking.


7676.jpg7391.jpg
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Old 03-14-2020, 05:17 AM   #4
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Yes, that are the two accepted versions of the Gahr SS membership pin.


Regards, Wim
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Old 03-14-2020, 09:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian J View Post
Interview from a 1941 Nürnberg paper.
Here's the link if you can stand Jo's ****posting.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/5ce0bG8fp8o/

That is unfortunate. I cannot abide the person. Is there a written record others can examine or is it his interpretation alone. We already experienced his interpretation of historical documents when he alleged Joseph Fuess was practically expelled from the party. This was when he was using the forum name Jos.Fuess. Of course examination of the documents he was using showed he was concocting a story.
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Old 03-14-2020, 09:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian J View Post
Though Gahr did probably produce them at some time, as evident of the two types of marking.
Attachment 4596683Attachment 4596684
Christian, you are taking Deschler's comments as fact two years after production halted? Is it not possible, Gahr's production varied in the years before the cessation of production in 1940?

Again I question the explanation of outsourcing to explain the supposed Deschler connection. I can understand outsourcing for large contracts, but for the expensive Gahr ZA pins? Did Hoffstätter outsource his production of the common ZA pins?
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Old 03-14-2020, 10:28 AM   #7
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This is the reason where it all begin: Picture compare of the two words. In the biggest picture you see the typical flared out letter 'I' on top which is also visible on both words "Silber". It comes so close together that one have to take some considerations.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Gahr - Deschler.JPG (84.5 KB, 191 views)
File Type: jpg Gahr.JPG (76.7 KB, 191 views)
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Old 03-14-2020, 12:24 PM   #8
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IMO, this has always been a problem with the use of micro-imaging. You have presented subjective interpretation of the comparison of two photographs. If this is what the Micro-expert is passing off as objective proof, he is delusional. While you see similarities in the I, I see no similarities in the rest of the letters after I. And look at the distance between the foot of the L and the base of the B. Hardly identical in my subjective view.

This is the same dog and pony show he put on, laced with his foul language, when he insisted only he could verify police Dienstmarken with his micro analysis. While at the same time he attempted to impugn the reputation and integrity of certain members of this forum, who argued that it was easily possible to verify Dienstmarken with objective standards of weight and size as well as simple subjective inspection with a loop. He deserved banishment at that time, but was not exiled.
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Old 03-14-2020, 01:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeW View Post
IMO, this has always been a problem with the use of micro-imaging. You have presented subjective interpretation of the comparison of two photographs. If this is what the Micro-expert is passing off as objective proof, he is delusional. While you see similarities in the I, I see no similarities in the rest of the letters after I. And look at the distance between the foot of the L and the base of the B. Hardly identical in my subjective view.

This is the same dog and pony show he put on, laced with his foul language, when he insisted only he could verify police Dienstmarken with his micro analysis. While at the same time he attempted to impugn the reputation and integrity of certain members of this forum, who argued that it was easily possible to verify Dienstmarken with objective standards of weight and size as well as simple subjective inspection with a loop. He deserved banishment at that time, but was not exiled.
Dear Joe, I know you and Jo are not the best friends. And I know about all the troubles in the past. And yes I agree the two "Silber" are not a 100% match. But they are very very familiar with each other. These lettering is made by the same person IMO. I have no cristal globe and I don't bother very much of these badges were made by Gahr or Deschler. I'm happy when the stuff I collect is real. Who it actually made is less important. Maybe one day some period evidence show up to tell who is right and who is wrong. It's not such a big deal.

Regards, Wim
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Old 03-14-2020, 01:22 PM   #10
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While not an exact match the letters after "I" do share similarities. IMO
Maybe if the pictures were same size if would make a difference or if they could be superimposed over each other.
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Old 03-14-2020, 01:36 PM   #11
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What if Gahr and Deschler both got their "Silber" stamps from the same stamp manufacturer?
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Old 03-14-2020, 01:43 PM   #12
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Just have a look at the video. There is more in it. Mute it if you find him obnoxious.
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Old 03-14-2020, 02:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiPo View Post
What if Gahr and Deschler both got their "Silber" stamps from the same stamp manufacturer?
That crossed also my mind.

Regards, Wim
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Old 03-14-2020, 02:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wim Vangossum View Post
That crossed also my mind.

Regards, Wim

Also mine.

And you are correct, it is a small point in the ocean of collecting we have. I am still trying to find info on the numbering system of the DAF Ehrennadel d. Musterbetriebe.
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Old 03-14-2020, 03:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
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That is unfortunate. I cannot abide the person. Is there a written record others can examine or is it his interpretation alone.

Now that's where the weasel is hiding after it got banned from YouTube as well ! Per his own account: "YouTube wiped my channel for HATE SPEECH".


It's said to be a 1941 interview with Deschler senior. "Alleinhersteller" = sole manufacturer. Sometimes the newspapers get the facts wrong.


GPA Alleinhersteller Deschler.JPG
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