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Fallschirmjäger Forum Paratrooper Badges, documents, photographs, headgear, uniforms, history, research, insignia and field gear.

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Old 12-29-2019, 05:56 AM   #16
Gil
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Sorry, strong post.
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Old 12-29-2019, 05:59 AM   #17
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Old 12-29-2019, 12:25 PM   #18
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50s BW helmets have rolled rim on outside like GSG9 helmets (although slightly different shape), so not sure what the shell is. However the chinstraps are from the 60s and later BW jump helmets. Early SEK units used many odd jump helmets, but mostly either GSG9 helmets or cut down 60s/70s BW shells.

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Originally Posted by SkaraBrae View Post
Here is a photo of the BW paratrooper helmet worn for a short period at the beginning of 1956. Already by the late summer, they had transitioned to American jump helmets.
no, it was opposite - US M1C was used only briefly by first BW FJ in 1956, then adopted the M38 style shells, of which several variants with slight shape/liner/rivet differences exist, not all look like this period photo. More or less an extensive field test for rest of 50s. However the e-stand helmet also not match them. They wore the M38 types until early 60s, when the later jump helmets with M1 type shells and German liner/chinstrap ("Stahlhelm, Luftlandetruppen") were introduced in 1961.

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Old 12-29-2019, 12:32 PM   #19
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Am I reading that correctly in the book that Ron shared, it says that the postwar helmets do not have a rolled rim?
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Old 12-29-2019, 01:29 PM   #20
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Hi Jeff that is correct no rolled rim. There is also a GSG 9 helmet that has a raw edge but then they put a metal cap on the edge of them which could be removed. Cliff
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Old 12-29-2019, 10:21 PM   #21
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on both the BW and GSG9 helmets, the rim is crimped over the edge and so visible also on outside (sorry to call this rolled earlier, i could not think of the English term).
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus1989 View Post
50s BW helmets have rolled rim on outside like GSG9 helmets (although slightly different shape), so not sure what the shell is. However the chinstraps are from the 60s and later BW jump helmets. Early SEK units used many odd jump helmets, but mostly either GSG9 helmets or cut down 60s/70s BW shells.



no, it was opposite - US M1C was used only briefly by first BW FJ in 1956, then adopted the M38 style shells, of which several variants with slight shape/liner/rivet differences exist, not all look like this period photo. More or less an extensive field test for rest of 50s. However the e-stand helmet also not match them. They wore the M38 types until early 60s, when the later jump helmets with M1 type shells and German liner/chinstrap ("Stahlhelm, Luftlandetruppen") were introduced in 1961.

Klaus

Klaus, that is wrong. There is a good book on the history of the German paratroops after 1950 which shows the progression in photos almost month by month. A good friend of mine was one of the first and is seen in the first pages of that book. As can be seen in the dated photos in the book, by the end of 1956, the WW2-bell-shaped helmets are no longer seen any more.

If you stay in this hobby long enough, all the old nonsense comes back around like a wheel. In the early 1970's, guys were cutting down regular helmets (leaving the rim edge raw) like the one on e-stand, putting in cheap fake liners, and selling them as "experimental" or "very late war" or "early Bundeswehr" helmets. This is one of those. Nothing like this was ever used in the war or afterwards, there was no need for such amateur cheapness.

The helmet on e-stand is a bad joke and should not be there under the rules.
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Old 01-04-2020, 07:10 PM   #23
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Discussion in the BW section;

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...60#post8612160
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Old 01-07-2020, 04:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkaraBrae View Post
Klaus, that is wrong. There is a good book on the history of the German paratroops after 1950 which shows the progression in photos almost month by month. A good friend of mine was one of the first and is seen in the first pages of that book. As can be seen in the dated photos in the book, by the end of 1956, the WW2-bell-shaped helmets are no longer seen any more.
sorry must disagree with this claim, because have collected BW/West German for years and have seen many photos, that contradict this. It is not hard to find photos of the WW2 style helmets in late 50s and even as late as early 60s, because worn with the parka. The parka was not introduced until 1959 (and first trialled only slightly earlier). Other proofs is, that some photos show the WW2 style helmets with BW FJ uniforms in "broad splinter" pattern, which was not produced until later in 1957 and also appear these helmets in photos with G1 rifles, which was not issued until 1957 and later.

In contrast the US M1C photos are rarer and are mostly from 1956-1957. The German made FJ helmets with M1 shaped shells were introduced first in 1961, which is why used variety of models before then. Some of the test models used beside M38 style are more rounded or have slight M1 shape, but are not US helmets! (Also never said e-stand helmet was BW, but rather it not match any known ones in its current state, so there we are in agreement anyway.)

Last edited by Klaus1989; 01-07-2020 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:46 PM   #25
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Here's a genuine early BW FJ helmet for $50 if anybody wants one.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/BW-Bundesweh...8AAOSwORheEhIt

Hard to understand why that cheap fake is still on eStand for almost $2000 after being unanimously condemned in two forums.
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Old 01-09-2020, 07:28 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkaraBrae View Post
Here's a genuine early BW FJ helmet for $50 if anybody wants one.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/BW-Bundesweh...8AAOSwORheEhIt

Hard to understand why that cheap fake is still on eStand for almost $2000 after being unanimously condemned in two forums.
Saving pictures for the benefit of the thread
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Old 01-10-2020, 06:01 PM   #27
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I hope, I can help a little bit?!

Ron posted #14 an early Fallschirmjägerhelmet. This is the model shown:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bw1.jpg (57.9 KB, 240 views)
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Old 01-10-2020, 06:04 PM   #28
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1. Bundeswehr steel helmets are ever olive green!!!
2. I only know grey chin straps for Bundeswehr helmets and green straps for GSG9 helmets.

Compare all known photos, helmets and so on with this informations. Here are photos from some of my helmets.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bw2.jpg (208.3 KB, 248 views)
File Type: jpg bw3.jpg (81.6 KB, 252 views)
File Type: jpg bw4.jpg (66.4 KB, 246 views)
File Type: jpg bw5.jpg (98.9 KB, 245 views)
File Type: jpg bw6.jpg (84.9 KB, 242 views)
File Type: jpg bw7.jpg (95.0 KB, 241 views)
File Type: jpg bw8.jpg (77.9 KB, 242 views)
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Old 01-10-2020, 06:14 PM   #29
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This is a steel helmet model GSG9 produced by VDN Schwerte. The green bluish color is typical for Bundesgrenzschutz steel helmets.
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File Type: jpg gsg9_1.jpg (78.5 KB, 249 views)
File Type: jpg gsg9_3.jpg (89.9 KB, 247 views)
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Old 01-10-2020, 06:30 PM   #30
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Fa. Schubert produced 2 Fallschirmjägerhelmets in M38 style (Baer book - Vom Stahlhelm zum Gefechtshelm page 135). One model is this what I shown you, the other looks like VDN Schwerte model GSG9.
By the way, Fa. Schuberth produced also bicycle crash helmets for the post war police. Theese helmets looks like a mix between the GSG9 and a M53 helmet (Baer book - Vom Stahlhelm zum Gefechtshelm page 39).


In my opion it is not easy to say, which model is the helmet from the e-stand? The color looks like the GSG9 color, the helmet model could be a Bundeswehr or a GSG9 helmet?! The chin strap is a Bundeswehr version ( ... a green one???), you find in Fallschirmjäger helmets since 1961. The liner ist one of the prototypes... There exist more than ten paratroopers helmet prototypes, more than Baer shows in his book.

Where is the rolled rim? I would say, some one removed it to make the helmet look like more a WWII M38 helmet?!

It is not easy to judge!

Kind regards
Basti

Last edited by ogpsycho; 01-10-2020 at 06:39 PM.
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