wehrmacht awards


Go Back   Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums > Ken Jasper International Militaria Forums > Japanese Militaria Forum

Japanese Militaria Forum All Japanese Militaria

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Japanese Sword? Vets Estate
Old 11-19-2017, 10:43 PM   #1
fredxvii
Member
 
fredxvii is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 153
Default Japanese Sword? Vets Estate

Not exactly sure what it's supposed to be; has a small stamp at the bottom of the tang as shown. Any help or information greatly appreciated










  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2017, 12:40 AM   #2
BruceP
Association Member
 
BruceP's Avatar
 
BruceP is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 688
Default

Fred,

Yes this is a Japanese Type 98 shingunto. Itís a custom job, with the blue ito (handle wrap) and the nice fuller-groove. The tiny stamp is a Tokyo Army Arsenal inspector stamp. Its presence means the blade was not made in the traditional way.

Nice sword. Does it have a scabbard?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2017, 01:21 AM   #3
GHP
Distinguished Contributor
 
GHP's Avatar
 
GHP is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 5,635
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceP View Post
...The tiny stamp is a Tokyo Army Arsenal inspector stamp. Its presence means the blade was not made in the traditional way.
From what I can see, it looks like

To[kyo]

Bruce, is this the same 東 mark found on the NCO blades that are Kokura?

Illustration from Ohmura-study.net


--Guy
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2017, 06:21 AM   #4
Sengoku
Member
 
Sengoku's Avatar
 
Sengoku is offline
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leeds UK
Posts: 98
Default

I think this is an NCO blade, fitted to 98 pattern type mounts. The nakago shortened to remove the end sarute barrel and screw hole, and make it fit the tsuka. I would like a look above the habaki at the other side of the blade to see if there are any numbers.
I also think the ito to be a rebind, an unusual colour and the style of ito-maki is one not usually seen on gunto, and in very clean condition. It is however nicely done, and the style is high class and not the most easily done.

The question as always is when this was done, a wartime expedient during a time of shortages, as we know happened. http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/japane...ersion-584796/

Or a post war refit, perhaps for a martial artist?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2017, 10:39 AM   #5
BruceP
Association Member
 
BruceP's Avatar
 
BruceP is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 688
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GHP View Post
From what I can see, it looks like

To[kyo]

Bruce, is this the same 東 mark found on the NCO blades that are Kokura?

Illustration from Ohmura-study.net


--Guy
Guy, yes, and while I haven't seen one of these on officer nakago before, I have lately seen "Na", Nagoya, stamps on two, so that's why it didn't surprise me. But it is common to see them on Type 95 nakago.

But after Sengoku's comments, I took a closer look, and think he is right. The kissaki and bohi are identical to a Type 95 blade. I was initially puzzled by the grinder-looking marks on the nakago edges, and Sengoku's theory would explain that. A close look at the nakago jiri shows that it's not perfectly shaped.

Fred, could you give us another picture of the blade, like pics 2 & 4, but with better lighting? I'd like to see if there was a serial number there, and just ground off, or if there was never one there. There were some specially made blades for officers, during the shortage, and they were identical to NCO blades, but with no serial number.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2017, 07:05 PM   #6
bangbangsan
Member
 
bangbangsan's Avatar
 
bangbangsan is offline
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 170
Default

It should be 造兵刀-形状寸法等概ね鍛錬刀に準じたもので刀身は刀剣鋼(C1.0%-1.1%)を使用し火造り素延べ成形し反りを付して油焼入(温度840度)焼戻(530度)したものを鍛錬 刀に準じて上研ぎした。油焼入れのため折れないけれども焼刃はない.
http://ohmura-study.net/219.html
造兵刀=Arsenal made blade with Type 94/98 officer Gunto fitting.






  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2017, 09:40 PM   #7
fredxvii
Member
 
fredxvii is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 153
Default

Here are the additional photos, both sides of the blade and scabbard







  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2017, 11:45 PM   #8
Rod G
Member
 
Rod G is offline
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 516
Default

To me it looks like someone buffed the finish off all the fittings, repainted the scabbard and rewrapped the handle post war. Did a nice job too if that's what you're looking for. Contrast it with the pics Bangbangsan posted.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-21-2017, 01:36 AM   #9
BruceP
Association Member
 
BruceP's Avatar
 
BruceP is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 688
Default

Thanks for the updated pics Fred! The blade was definitely not an NCO blade, and was likely made for an officer. Itís still possible it was made by an NCO blade company during the gunto shortage years. Rod may be right about it being recently (post-war) refitted as the file marks on the tang look too new. I agree it was nice work either way.

Interesting gunto!
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-21-2017, 05:52 AM   #10
Sengoku
Member
 
Sengoku's Avatar
 
Sengoku is offline
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leeds UK
Posts: 98
Default

Certainly a collectable piece. Given that NCO 95's have serial numbers on all major parts, this indicates that they went on after completion and before leaving the factory as opposed to immediately after the blade was made.

ps, thanks for the link to Ohmura, I am familiar with the site but not that particular article.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-21-2017, 12:05 PM   #11
oldhonda
Member
 
oldhonda is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 294
Default

The scabbard is the one from the much debated "Navy-Army" sword.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-21-2017, 01:14 PM   #12
Sengoku
Member
 
Sengoku's Avatar
 
Sengoku is offline
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leeds UK
Posts: 98
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldhonda View Post
The scabbard is the one from the much debated "Navy-Army" sword.
I noticed that as well. Do you see this as a variant on those? Much better ito and has same which you don't see on them, and a very different blade, but still has a certain resemblance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-21-2017, 05:52 PM   #13
bangbangsan
Member
 
bangbangsan's Avatar
 
bangbangsan is offline
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceP View Post
Thanks for the updated pics Fred! The blade was definitely not an NCO blade, and was likely made for an officer. Itís still possible it was made by an NCO blade company during the gunto shortage years. Rod may be right about it being recently (post-war) refitted as the file marks on the tang look too new. I agree it was nice work either way.

Interesting gunto!
http://ohmura-study.net/206.html
check this article about 造兵刀
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-21-2017, 07:27 PM   #14
Bob Coleman
Member
 
Bob Coleman is offline
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NATURE'S WONDERLAND
Posts: 4,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldhonda View Post
The scabbard is the one from the much debated "Navy-Army" sword.
These did exist in the period as I have owned a few bought directly from veterans.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-21-2017, 09:08 PM   #15
BruceP
Association Member
 
BruceP's Avatar
 
BruceP is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 688
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bangbangsan View Post
http://ohmura-study.net/206.html
check this article about 造兵刀
Yes! Good example!
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump






vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com