wehrmacht awards


Go Back   Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums > Ken Jasper International Militaria Forums > Imperial Uniforms and Headgear

Imperial Uniforms and Headgear Imperial German Pickelhaubes and Uniforms.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Dating German WW1 Steel Helmets
Old 08-03-2017, 11:22 AM   #1
bsrmilitaria
Association Member
 
bsrmilitaria's Avatar
 
bsrmilitaria is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mississippi (USA)
Posts: 296
Default Dating German WW1 Steel Helmets

It seems to me that many collectors and even dealers throw around terms like Model 1916, Model 1917 or Model 1918 - When they fully dont understand what they have.

In this thread I hope to share some knowledge on this topic. Any further help is always welcome!

Lets get started
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017, 11:24 AM   #2
bsrmilitaria
Association Member
 
bsrmilitaria's Avatar
 
bsrmilitaria is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mississippi (USA)
Posts: 296
Default

First is a very salty M16 - Model 1916 German WWI Helmet. We know this is a Model 1916 due to the liner.

As you can see in the second photo has a leather liner band. This was implemented early in the war and not changed until the Model 1917 helmet was issued.

SO: When you see a leather liner band - You know its an M16
Attached Images
File Type: jpg s-l1600.jpg (63.7 KB, 247 views)
File Type: jpg s-l1600-7.jpg (108.6 KB, 245 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017, 11:33 AM   #3
bsrmilitaria
Association Member
 
bsrmilitaria's Avatar
 
bsrmilitaria is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mississippi (USA)
Posts: 296
Default

Next is a model 1917. We know this is a model 1917 due to the steel liner band AND its Pig Skin liner. Pig skin liners are a dark brown color as seen in the photo.

SO: When you see a steel liner band AND a brown leather liner - You know its a M17.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DD1.jpg (71.7 KB, 248 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1495.jpg (143.0 KB, 246 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017, 11:34 AM   #4
bsrmilitaria
Association Member
 
bsrmilitaria's Avatar
 
bsrmilitaria is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mississippi (USA)
Posts: 296
Default

It is also quite interesting to note the helmets color. As you can see the shiny green color is original and factory painted. In 1918 an order was given to repaint German WW1 helmets as the helmet paint glistened under the sun light. This made a target for the enemy.

SO: When you see green factory painted helmets - You know it is most likely used or captured before 1918.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1520.jpg (43.6 KB, 245 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1522.jpg (71.5 KB, 245 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017, 11:41 AM   #5
bsrmilitaria
Association Member
 
bsrmilitaria's Avatar
 
bsrmilitaria is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mississippi (USA)
Posts: 296
Default

Finally - The M18. Mostly the M18 and M17 are confused as they both have steel liner bands. HOWEVER on the model 1918 (Not all) but many helmets were produced with Goat Leather. These are a whitish color.

SO: When you see a steel liner band and a white liner - You know its a Model 1918.

PLEASE NOTE: Final Photos are not mine - Courtesy of http://helmetsofwar.com/
Attached Images
File Type: jpg img_5959.jpg (59.8 KB, 244 views)
File Type: jpg img_3191.jpg (114.2 KB, 243 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017, 11:47 AM   #6
bsrmilitaria
Association Member
 
bsrmilitaria's Avatar
 
bsrmilitaria is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mississippi (USA)
Posts: 296
Default

I would also like to mention : The main difference between German WWI helmets and Austrian WWI helmets are their rivet locations.

The first Photo is the Austrian WW1 helmet. As you can note compared to the german below, the rivet is higher up and closer to the helmet lugs.

There are many other ways of Identifying Austrian helmets such as color, liner and chinstrap. However in many cases these have rotten away or been Damaged. So rivets are very easy to Spot.

PLEASE NOTE: Austrian Helmet Photos are not mine - Courtesy of Espenlaub Militaria
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ww1-austrian-isonzobraun-helmet--114984.jpg (131.6 KB, 245 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1520.jpg (43.6 KB, 246 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017, 11:50 AM   #7
bsrmilitaria
Association Member
 
bsrmilitaria's Avatar
 
bsrmilitaria is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mississippi (USA)
Posts: 296
Default

If anyone else has some information, correction or other examples to share. It would be great to see!

Thanks for reading! Knowledge is power
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017, 08:07 PM   #8
Chip M
Member
 
Chip M's Avatar
 
Chip M is offline
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,226
Default

Hello,

I'm no helmet expert, but I think the photo you identify as a M18 helmet, it is actually a M17. If I'm correct, the difference between a M17 and a M18 is that the chinstrap is attached to the bails on the metal liner. There were no posts for the 1891 style chinstraps.

Chip
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017, 08:46 PM   #9
C. Roelens
Association Member
 
C. Roelens's Avatar
 
C. Roelens is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: California
Posts: 4,469
Default

You are correct Chip. And, the liner pads and chinstrap are bad. Way to much ground to cover in this thread. I would suggest the OP pick up a copy of Baer's book, and review the many pinned threads on GHW for starters.

Chuck
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017, 10:32 PM   #10
bsrmilitaria
Association Member
 
bsrmilitaria's Avatar
 
bsrmilitaria is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mississippi (USA)
Posts: 296
Default

Thanks guys for that correction! Shows I am still learning too.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-2017, 10:42 PM   #11
bsrmilitaria
Association Member
 
bsrmilitaria's Avatar
 
bsrmilitaria is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mississippi (USA)
Posts: 296
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Roelens View Post
You are correct Chip. And, the liner pads and chinstrap are bad. Way to much ground to cover in this thread. I would suggest the OP pick up a copy of Baer's book, and review the many pinned threads on GHW for starters.

Chuck
As stated in my first reply to the thread - There is much more to Identifying German WW1 helmets. However I am trying to make a quick and easy reference for those collectors and dealers that are not into helmets.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-08-2017, 11:36 PM   #12
Grausig13
New Member
 
Grausig13 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: New England
Posts: 23
Default

For simplicity sake you are painting with broad brush strokes, and it is not so easy to do. There are collectors and researchers who devote as much to JUST the German helmet as others do to much broader subjects. Personally I can see myself taking on just one or two makers of the steel shell that interest me, and seeing what liners may have been present in those--and by that I mean the types of leather, markings, cloth, usw. My m1917 liner is white leather.

Essentially you will find two types of liners in the m1916 Stahlhelm, looking at a leather band initially, then a metal band in 1917 (hence the m1917 moniker). I have seen leather bands dated 1917 at least, so it does not mean they stopped using the leather band in 1917. The m1918 Stahlhelm ditched the m1891 style strap, so a bale is attached directly to the liner band. Years ago I saw a liner band m1918 in a m1916 Stahlhelm--must have been a field replacement.

Makers, shortages of materials, and field repairs will all play havoc with "simplifying" any of the information. There are also so many helmets that are monkeyed with; reenactor helmet liners with 20 years of use that can pass for original, aged copies, "restorations" made to look old, and 100 year old souvenir camouflage helmets painted after the war in colours and patterns that are often 'quite off' in many ways. Get yourself some reference books and talk to serious helmet collectors to get your info. Good luck!
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-15-2017, 01:02 PM   #13
hagen.191
Member
 
hagen.191's Avatar
 
hagen.191 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 806
Default

I wonder why this M17 here has a white liner. I thought that only M18's are white. Thanks for your help.



Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-15-2017, 01:56 PM   #14
bolle2
New Member
 
bolle2 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: germany
Posts: 26
Default

Hello hagen 191,
You 've got a late war M16 with a correct steelband liner.
White leather is not unusual

Bolle
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-15-2017, 03:55 PM   #15
Hans K.
Association Member
 
Hans K.'s Avatar
 
Hans K. is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 1,147
Default

To keep it simple: M16 and M18 refers to actual German helmet models. M17 is the generally agreed upon collector term given to an M16 shell with the modified steel liner band. The steel band replaced the leather liner band roughly mid-1917.

The Germans manufactured three shell patterns during WW1 - The M16, M18 and the M18 with ear cut-outs.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump






vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com