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Old 05-11-2010, 12:41 PM   #31
uscob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael D. Gallagher View Post
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Nico,

Is it possible that the storage of these knives on an Army Kaserne is just one of many fantasy rumors that sometimes get circulated? Has your friend actually seen or observed the knives and assault weapons?

The reason I ask is that I know from actual published articles and records, the Bundeswehr was charged with demilitarization (destruction) of all personal issue weapons. That is why they are so hard to come by today. It would seem odd they would retain 2000 knives and assault rifles and keep them in a bunker. One has to ask for what purpose? I can think of none. And that gives me cause to question that they are really there.

Just an observation and thought.

Can you research this further?
All?
As he told me they had to get the Depot smaller and he was involved to move the stuff to another place.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:35 PM   #32
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SCHUPO, Would it be possible to post a couple of photos of your KM87 in the plastic packaging? What's the serial number and does it have a "W" proof mark?
Hi Kevin,

I cannot post pix here but my bayonet is identical to those shown except the hilt retention strap has grey velcro instead of tan and the poorly struck mark on the scabbard tip appears to be a 1 or an I within the circle instead of a W. My serial number is 2483 on the blade and the pommel. The KM87 booklet (Bedienungs- und Nutzungsanleitung KM 87) is dated 1989. The clear plastic packaging is that which is normally seen on some DDR bayonets and equipments.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:01 AM   #33
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Thansk SCHUPO. I think you have the same proof mark or possibly year mark. It's probably the same as mine which looks like a backward J or a 1 or I. So now we have a number above 2000:

2483 (SCHUPO, Date 1989)
1925 (Michael)
1763
1573
1283
0715
0302 (Ehrentitle)
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:11 AM   #34
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Thanks George
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M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”
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and mystique
Old 05-12-2010, 12:13 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by SCHUPO View Post
The KM87 is quite scarce and I am not surprised at all by the price. I have one in unissued condition with the plastic packaging and the little handbook that was issued with the bayonet. I would not take the realized ebay price for mine.

I think a couple of things drive up the price of these aside from the supply/demand issue. First, they are a bayonet so they appeal to both DDR and edged weapon collectors so there is a wide market. Second, they were made for trials and limited issue so there is the "elite" unit draw. Third, they are a neat functional edged weapons system with lots of features like the tools in the handle, signal mirror, measuring markings, etc. I am not surprised by the price at all.
and the mystique of something rare with an illusory history factors into the price tag...
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Old 05-13-2010, 11:24 AM   #36
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Thansk SCHUPO. I think you have the same proof mark or possibly year mark. It's probably the same as mine which looks like a backward J or a 1 or I.
One of the theories I have about the 1 inside the circle mark on this bayonet is that it's East German maker's arsenal country code. Poland, for example, used the number 11 inside a circle for their weapons code. I believe that East Germany used a 1 inside a triangle for some weapons, so why not use the same number on bayonets?

Last edited by ehrentitle; 05-13-2010 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 05-13-2010, 11:36 AM   #37
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Found another documented serial number 0259, note that the photos of the scabbard show the same light velcro as mine: http://www.mreinfo.com/forums/viewto...?p=16776#16776

2483 (SCHUPO, Date 1989)
1925 (Michael)
1763
1573
1283
0715
0302 (Ehrentitle)
0259
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:57 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehrentitle View Post
One of the theories I have about the 1 inside the circle mark on this bayonet is that it's East German maker's arsenal country code. Poland, for example, used the number 11 inside a circle for their weapons code. I believe that East Germany used a 1 inside a triangle for some weapons, so why not use the same number on bayonets?
Genosse,
Is the triangle formula not a DDR quality grade, with a number 1 to 3 ?, please correct this Command, so the Research Bureau that supplied this data can face the full wraith of a People's Court for their wrecking ways.

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Old 05-13-2010, 02:08 PM   #39
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Genosse,
Is the triangle formula not a DDR quality grade, with a number 1 to 3 ?, please correct this Command, so the Research Bureau that supplied this data can face the full wraith of a People's Court for their wrecking ways.

That's entirely possible since I don't know weapons as well as other areas of NVA collecting.
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:38 PM   #40
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In late 1989 the NVA newspaper Volksarmee did a series of articles on weapons. Among them was an article on bayonets which includes the section of text below on the KM87. I'm not going to attempt to translate it from German since my skills are not that good. However it talks about the polymer handle made by a plastic injection technique and the many features of the knife, like the survival kit, mirror, etc. Perhaps someone who speaks German better than I can provide a good translation.

Das Kampfmesser 87

Die Produktion der unterschiedlichen Seitengewehre für die Kalaschnikow-Versionen war die Basis für die Entwicklung des Kampfmessers 87 (KM-87).

So übernahmen die Konstrukteure die Scheide aus glasfaserverstärktem Polyamid (Plast in Spritztechnik). Unten jedoch ist die Scheide leicht verändert, weil ein Schraubendreher eingeformt worden ist.

Das eigentliche Messer ähnelt zwar der Bajonettklinge, weist aber einige Besonderheiten auf. Dazu zählen die veränderte Säge auf dem Rücken zum besseren Schneiden von Holz und Metall sowie der Stichschliff auf dem Rücken. Links ist ein Winkelmesser eingeäzt, rechts gibt es ein Lineal mit Millimeter- und Zentimetergravur. Für den Faustriemen ist ein Ring vorhanden. Vom Griffstück läßt sich der Metallkopf (Schlagplatte) abschrauben, um an den eingelassenen Plastbehälter zu gelangen. In diesem befinden sich eine sechsfach vergrößernde Lupe (auch als Brennglas zu verwenden), chirurgischer Faden mit Nadel, zwei Nähnadeln, Sturmzündhölzer, Angelhaken in zwei Größen, Angelschnur, Senkblei und asserentkeimungstabletten. Die Tragschlaufe besteht aus zwei Gurtenden, welche durch Verschlußriemen und Öse verbunden sind. Durch Lösen des Verschlußriemens wird der Signalspiegel aus nichtrostendem Stahlble frei.

Wilfried Kopenhagen



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Old 05-15-2010, 10:14 AM   #41
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Kevin,

Great article. I'm busy with our DDR Guest at the moment. When I have time I will do a bit of translation. I really liked the other prior examples. It helps to have nomenclatures, dates and picture examples to better understand when the different bayonets were produced and what exactly they looked like.

Thanks,
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Old 05-16-2010, 04:49 PM   #42
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Michael, Thanks for the vote of confidence! I had forgotten about scanning it, I stumbled upon it when it popped up as one of my images on the screen saver. Found another documented serial number 1164 for one currently on sale on E-bay.

2483 (SCHUPO, Date 1989)
1925 (Michael)
1763
1573
1283
1164
0715
0302 (Ehrentitle)
0259

Last edited by ehrentitle; 05-16-2010 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:28 AM   #43
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Here is another for the pot...... unluckily or luckily, depending on how you look at it... the plastic bag was opened before I got it.....
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:29 AM   #44
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:30 AM   #45
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