wehrmacht awards


Go Back   Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums > Ken Jasper International Militaria Forums > Indo China Wars 1945 - 1975.

Indo China Wars 1945 - 1975. Covering, French Indo China, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Old 10-22-2009, 03:44 PM   #46
kammo man
Member
 
kammo man is online now
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Losangeles
Posts: 9,436
Default

Classic after the battle stuff .
I NEVER get tired of looking at these type of photos .
I read After the Battle books and magazines all the time and would love to see all Vietnam covered one day !!!
come on Viet members give an Irish man a show ........please ???
owen
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-22-2009, 04:05 PM   #47
nguoi tien su
Member
 
nguoi tien su's Avatar
 
nguoi tien su is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lom, Togo
Posts: 1,145
Default

Really great photo Dennis.

I can't remember about the other side of the street... I'll see if I manage to go there again next year!

Owen, we can open an after the battle thread if you want !
  Reply With Quote

Pain
Old 10-22-2009, 05:00 PM   #48
express06snail
Member
 
express06snail's Avatar
 
express06snail is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ozzieland, Down Under
Posts: 182
Default Pain

After the war, hundred of thousands of ex-services of the South VN army had get treated like second class citizens at their own birth places as the North Commies Gov control all over Vn. Statues was all destroyed, the Bien-Hoa Army cemetery (km 27 of HWY1 from Saigon, left hand side) badly damaged, they shoot at the headstone, digging up ARVN high ranking officer bodies, no one can pay a visit to ones in there, since that time, the PAVN guarding the Bien-Hoa cemetery 24/7 with very limited permission to gain to visit. That's really painful for half of the population of VN. as Dennis said, I believed in the Curse of the dead against the Victory sides. The same story about the communist students get ill was happened in Thu-Duc military school, nowadays its the Army Academy of PAVN. The people live around the area near the Bien-Hoa cemetery said sometime in the year just after sunset, they saw a group of soldiers with steel helmet knocking the door and asking for water as they said they were very thirsty. The people then gave them some water to drink and they suddenly disappeared. When talking about the Bien-Hoa army cemetery, anyone will tell this story.

Last edited by express06snail; 10-22-2009 at 05:07 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-22-2009, 06:02 PM   #49
zvezdah1
Member
 
zvezdah1 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: georgia
Posts: 543
Default

Alex did a wonderful job chronicling Don Tan My as it looks today, where my father served with Mat team 43 in 64-65. The pics are somewhere on this forum I believe.


Here is the thread.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272115&highlight=Don+Tan

Chris.

Last edited by Patrick Dempsey; 10-23-2009 at 02:55 AM. Reason: Insertion of link.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-22-2009, 06:33 PM   #50
D. Michael Kim
Member
 
D. Michael Kim is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 531
Default

Stanley, I to have heard stories of apparitions of soldiers wandering past the cemetery at sundown stopping and asking for only food and water so that they could continue the fight.

As history has shown all communist regimes have exhibited mass murder of their own people and have a total disregard for the dead. In Asian culture the dead are as honored as if they were alive, and it is the responsibility of the living to care for them. One time each year there is a celebration of their lives where the families would go to honor them and bring all the necessities of life. Prepared food, drink, and money, cars and homes made of bamboo and paper were brought and offered to the departed. The money, cars, homes and servants were burned and as the smoke raised to the havens the living were happy knowing that the departed would soon be receiving their offerings. Food that was brought was left and that which were brought home were enjoyed by the families.

As such, if one could not find the departed they were not able to honor them. If I remember correctly when a person reached his hundredth birthday this yearly celebration did not need to be continued.

When I talked to my counterparts’ daughter four years ago and read the story of how he died it was sad, but I was happy to know that he was not buried in a cemetery for they were all descirated. He was semi paralyzed and was released from prison after a short stay for he was more trouble than they wanted, and they did not consider him a threat. Although physically impaired he used his mind and did everything in his power to continuously piss off the victors. When he died he was just buried on a dry piece of land intersecting adjoining rice paddy dikes. His family was so poor at the time that his daughter regrets to this day that she was not able to buy the new white cloth that would wrap his body. Recently he was disinterred and reunited with his wife in Saigon. Most other soldier’s families were not so lucky.

Within the next few years I will travel back in time and have a drink of cognac (his favorite drink) at his grave. I will meet his daughter who was 6 when I met her and her son. I look forward to the visit.

I am enclosing a picture of a statue that I believe was at the Bien Hoa guarding the cemetery.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Bien Hoa.jpg (26.7 KB, 840 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-22-2009, 06:49 PM   #51
D. Michael Kim
Member
 
D. Michael Kim is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 531
Default

I just received this photo today from a friend who is a major collector of Vietnamese insignia (Right Patch). One patch is a find, two is confirmation.

As you can see the design is the same. I will have to look at the back of my patch this evening to determine if it came from the same tailor shop.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Untitled-8.jpg (115.7 KB, 814 views)

Last edited by Patrick Dempsey; 10-23-2009 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Replaced photo, as per request.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-22-2009, 07:04 PM   #52
express06snail
Member
 
express06snail's Avatar
 
express06snail is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ozzieland, Down Under
Posts: 182
Default

Dennis, that's the statue at the Bien-Hoa cemetery, and it was destroyed just after the fall of Saigon by the North as same as many other statues in South Vietnam that bearing the images of the RVNAF.
Great to know that you're an ex Ranger Advisor back then, have you ever visit Vietnam after the war, they're changing every days, you will be surprised when you get there. There were thousands of ex RVNAF officers were forced to hard labor in hundreds of Commies concentration brain washing camps and many of them didn't make a survived.
Let's visit Vietnam some day Dennis...
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-22-2009, 07:50 PM   #53
zvezdah1
Member
 
zvezdah1 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: georgia
Posts: 543
Default

Dennis,
Have you ever been in contact with this organization of ex VN advisors. They were quite helpful with helping me get info re: my father, etc.

http://www.counterparts.net/

Chris
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-22-2009, 07:57 PM   #54
D. Michael Kim
Member
 
D. Michael Kim is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 531
Default

I know several officers who spent many years in what the press likes to call re-education camps. To those who were in these camps, they were concentration camps. The commandant of Duc My Training Center when I was there spent over 12 years in prison before being released. The last Vietnamese to be released was a General who spent over 17 years behind the wire.

I am planning a trip back in the near future.

Look at the following Ranger site: Go to a server and type in Biet Dong Quan.
It will open up and list different ranger sites,

Click on the first site and you will be in the Vietnamese Ranger web site.
At the top it has different topics. For the English speaking members click on ARTICLES and you will be able to read some information.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-27-2009, 03:39 PM   #55
D. Michael Kim
Member
 
D. Michael Kim is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 531
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zvezdah1 View Post
Dennis,
Have you ever been in contact with this organization of ex VN advisors. They were quite helpful with helping me get info re: my father, etc.

http://www.counterparts.net/

Chris

I am glad that they were able to assist you. I met Bill Laurie the founder in Phoenix 4 years ago. He has spent his whole life making sure that the public knows the true story of the war, not the manufactured one. I truly respect him for his efforts. I am a member of the BDQ association, and have contacts with different Vietnaese military associations as a informational base.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-27-2009, 05:06 PM   #56
kammo man
Member
 
kammo man is online now
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Losangeles
Posts: 9,436
Default

!!!!!!!ARVN ghosts !!!!!!!!!!

owen
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-27-2009, 05:18 PM   #57
kammo man
Member
 
kammo man is online now
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Losangeles
Posts: 9,436
Default

Speaking of ghosts I see Mike Tucker has just appeared !!!!!!


he he he
owen
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-27-2009, 06:07 PM   #58
D. Michael Kim
Member
 
D. Michael Kim is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 531
Default

Yes he has arrived in Friendly territory. Mike please share your knowledge without the fear of the non Vietnam
collecting police
having a aneurism!!!!!
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-28-2009, 05:49 PM   #59
D. Michael Kim
Member
 
D. Michael Kim is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 531
Default

Before I post further items I wanted to post the history of the Biet Dong Quan as taken from their site found in the 75th Ranger Association web site.

To better appreciate a item from any military unit, one should know their history.


BIET DONG QUAN HISTORY
Advisors to ARVN Rangers
(Bit Dng Qun)

During 1951, the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) suggested to General De Lattre (Jean de Lattre de Tassigny - Commander in chief Indochina) that the French should form "counter-guerilla" warfare groups to operate in Vietminh - controlled areas. The French command rejected the concept of unconventional warfare units, although they did establish a Commando School at Nha Trang. By 1956, the US Advisory Group would turn this facility into a physical training and ranger-type school.

As the seriousness of the insurgency became more apparent during the early weeks of 1960, American and South Vietnamese leaders began to consider what measures might be adopted to deal with the deteriorating security situation. President of the Republic of Vietnam, Ngo Dinh Diem had his own solution. On 16 February 1960, without consulting his American military advisors, he ordered commanders of divisions and military regions to form ranger companies from the army, the reserves, retired army personnel and the Civil Guard.

In the Beginning
Activated in 1960, Army of the Republic of Vietnam (ARVN) Rangers (Bit Dng Qun [BDQ]) initially organized into separate companies to counter the guerilla war then being waged by the Viet Cong (VC). From the beginning, American Rangers were assigned as advisors, initially as members of Mobile Training Teams (MTTs), deployed from the U.S., at training centers, and later at the unit level. A small number of promising Vietnamese Ranger leaders were selected to attend the U.S. Army Ranger school at Fort Benning. As a result of their common experiences, lasting bonds of mutual respect were formed between the combat veterans of both nations. During the early days, Ranger missions focused on raids and ambushes into such VC zones as War Zone D, Duong Minh Chau, Do Xa and Boi Loi (later to be called the "Hobo Woods" by the American forces) to destroy the VC infrastructure. The well-known shoulder insignia, bearing a star and a Black Panther's head, symbolized the courageous fighting spirit of the Vietnamese Rangers.

Training
Ranger courses were established at three training sites in May 1960: Da Nang, Nha Trang, and Song Mao. The original Nha Trang Training course relocated to Duc My in 1961 and would become the central Ranger-Bit Dng Qun-Company and Battalion sized unit training was later established at Trung Lap; to ensure a consistently high level of combat readiness, BDQ units regularly rotated through both RTC's. Graduates of the school earned the coveted Ranger badge with its distinctive crossed swords. Ranger Training Centers conducted tough realistic training that enabled graduates to accomplish the challenging missions assigned to Ranger units. Known as the 'steel refinery ' of the ARVN, the centers conducted training in both jungle and mountain warfare.

South Vietnamese combat reconnaissance was a responsibility of the Ranger Training Command and ARVN reconnaissance units and teams were trained at either the Duc My RTC Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol (LRRP) course or at the Australian-sponsored Long Range Patrol (LRP) course of the Van Kiep National Training Center; graduates were awarded the Reconnaissance Qualification badge (a pair of winged hands holding silver binoculars).

Operations
In 1962, BDQ companies were grouped to form Special Battalions: the 10th in Da Nang, the 20th in Pleiku, and the 30th Battalion in Saigon. These Special Battalions operated deep inside the enemy controlled regions on "Search and Destroy" missions. By 1963 the war expanded as main force North Vietnamese Army (NVA) units began invading the South, launching battalion and regimental-size attacks against ARVN units. To cope with the escalation by the Communists, Ranger units were organized into battalions and their mission evolved from counter-insurgency to light infantry operations. During the years 1964-66, the Ranger battalions intercepted, engaged and defeated main force enemy units. During July 1966, the battalions were formed into task forces, and five Ranger Group headquarters were created to provide command and control for tactical operations. This afforded the Rangers better control and the ability to mass forces quickly and strike more rapidly. ARVN combat divisions as well as Regional and Popular Force (RF/PF) units had a territorial security orientation that tied them to a limited geographic area. Ranger units assumed the responsibility of providing the primary ARVN mobile reaction force in each Tactical Zone a far larger geographical operating area.

When the VC and NVA forces opened the 1968 Tet Offensive in the major cities of Vietnam, the maroon beret soldiers were rushed to the scene and were an active force in defeating the Communists threat. The 3d and 5th Ranger Groups defended and secured the capitol, Saigon and the 37th Battalion fought alongside the U.S. Marines at Khe Sanh. Rangers continued to distinguish themselves on battlefields throughout Vietnam as well as the 1970 incursion into Cambodia and Operation "Lam Son 719" in Laos. As American ground forces reduced their tactical role and began to withdraw from Vietnam, an additional mission was assumed by the BDQ. On 22 May 1970, the Civilian Irregular Defense Group (CIDG), formerly under the operational control of 5th U.S. Special Forces Group, integrated into Ranger forces, along with responsibility for border defense. With the conversion of CIDG camps to combat battalions, Ranger forces more than doubled in size.

When the NVA launched major attacks on three fronts on Easter Sunday of 1972 in an all-out effort to gain a decisive military victory Ranger units once again answered the call to defend the fatherland. Near the DMZ in Quang Tri Province, Rangers, together with ARVN, Marine and Regional Forces units, stopped the enemy after a 22-day fight in which 131 NVA tanks were destroyed and approximately 7,000 NVA soldiers were killed. At An Loc, Ranger, ARVN and Regional Force units stopped four NVA Divisions, reinforced with armor and artillery in what was probably one of the bloodiest battles of the Vietnam War. In Kontum Province, the Rangers participated in the battle of Tay Nguyen, in which still another multi-division NVA attack was smashed.

At the time of the "cease-fire," 28 January 1973, Ranger High Command estimated that the Rangers had killed 40,000 of the enemy, captured 7,000 and assisted 255 to rally to the government side. It was also reported that 1,467 crew-served weapons and 10,941 individual weapons had been captured. Of course, there was no true cease-fire, and the war continued. In 1973, the role of the Ranger Advisor was curtailed. As individual advisors rotated back to the United States, they were not replaced. Finally, by the end of 1973 the last Ranger Advisor was quietly ordered home.

During 1973, 1974 and 1975, the Rangers continued to be employed in a variety of critical combat roles, performing intelligence and reconnaissance missions and providing the ARVN with a quick reaction force. In addition, their mission of border security continued. In the last days of the war, the BDQ fought to the end, units totally destroyed in battles from the North to Saigon, many of the Ranger units fought back independently against orders - refusing to surrender - bloodying the advancing Communist forces. In Tay Ninh province the Rangers fought until Saigon fell. In Saigon, Rangers fought until the morning of 30 April when they were ordered to lay down their arms.

When the war finally ended with the fall of Saigon in 1975, most of the Ranger leaders were considered too dangerous by the communist government, and sentenced to long periods of incarceration in the dreaded "reeducation camps." As an example, General Do ke Giai, the last commander of Ranger forces spent more than 17 years imprisonment for his fervent anti-Communist resistance.

The Role of the Advisor
The experiences of the American advisors (and a few Australians) to the BDQ were unique from other advisors and definitely different from their U.S. unit counterparts. Their mission and the force structure of the units they advised demanded more experienced and thoroughly trained individuals. Officers were almost all Ranger qualified, and after 1966 most were on a second or subsequent combat tour. The Non-Commissioned Officers were arguably the most talented Sergeants that the Army had to offer. Many of these Sergeants were experienced cadre from the Ranger Department at the Infantry School, or experienced small unit leaders with Infantry, Special Forces or Marine backgrounds; some had fought in World War II and / or Korea. It was fairly common for the more senior NCOs to serve as Ranger advisors between tours at one of the Ranger Training Camps.

According to the Military Assistance Command-Vietnam Joint manpower authorization documents, advisory teams were fairly robust. Each was authorized eight personnel to perform the support mission. The authorized grades for the Ranger battalion and group Senior Advisor were Major and Lieutenant Colonel respectively. This was usually not the case however, as a battalion advisor team routinely consisted of an experienced Captain, a Lieutenant, two NCOs and a RadioTelephone Operator (RTO). It was not uncommon to field teams of two or three personnel. The Ranger Group Headquarters advisor team was comprised of a Major, one or two Captains, two or three NCO's, and an RTO.

Living and military operations experience for the Ranger advisor varied dramatically from area to area, unit to unit, and year to year. Operations were normally conducted by Ranger battalions, but were often smaller in some locales. Frequently, multi-battalion operations were conducted under the command and control of the Ranger Group headquarters. In addition to being selected for tactical and technical proficiency, many Ranger advisors were graduates of the Military Assistance and Training Advisory Course (MATA) and Vietnamese Language School. However, the tactical requirements always exceeded the number of school slots, and most advisors depended upon lessons learned the hard way, and the good luck to have a Vietnamese counterpart who understood English. Each team was authorized a local interpreter / translator, however these proved to be of varied skills and reliability.

The primary mission of an advisor was to counsel his Vietnamese counterpart on development and implementation of operational plans as well as the tactical execution of military operations. The advisor coordinated any available combat support from U.S. forces such as artillery, armored vehicles, air strikes, helicopter gunships, naval gunfire, and medical evacuation. Additionally, the advisor was expected to escort and directly communicate with a variety of specialist teams that might accompany the unit on operations, such as artillery forward observers, Air Force forward air controllers (FAC), naval gunfire teams, canine handlers, or combat correspondents.

While differences were evident from team to team, the Ranger advisors led a unique life under an unusual set of circumstances. The highly mobile advisory team was with the Vietnamese unit at all times when it was in the field on military operations, which could last for days or weeks. Living conditions were Spartan and arduous. Frequent and intense combat was the rule for Ranger units. The team survived on limited supplies and rations (resupply in the field was sporadic at best), often with a limited knowledge of the operational plan and enemy intelligence situation. The team's communications lifeline and link was often a single PRC-25 tactical radio. Despite, or because of these circumstances and conditions, the Ranger advisors became very adept at accomplishing their responsibilities and fulfilling their missions.

Awards and Honors
Vietnamese Ranger units and individual soldiers received a wide range of awards for valor and heroism from both the Republic of Vietnam and the United States. The 42nd and 44th Battalions were awarded their country's National Order Fourragere, the 43rd Battalion the Military Order Fourragere, and the 21st, 37th, 41st and 52nd Battalions the Gallantry Cross Fourragere. Twenty-three Ranger units were awarded the Vietnamese Gallantry Cross with Palm unit award, with the 42nd Battalion receiving the award seven times, the 44th Battalion six times, and the 1st Group and 43rd Battalion each four times.

Eleven U.S. Presidential Unit Citations (PUC) were awarded to Vietnamese Ranger units. The 37th Battalion three times, the 39th and 42d twice, and the 1st Ranger Task Force, 21st, 44th and 52nd Battalions each received the PUC once. The U.S. Valorous Unit Award was awarded to the 21st, 32d, 41st, 43d, 77th and 91st Ranger Battalions. Large numbers of individual Vietnamese Rangers were presented U.S. awards such as the Silver Star, Bronze Star, and Army Commendation Medals for acts of valor in the face of enemy forces.

A number of American Ranger Advisors were decorated for gallantry under fire, the best known is SFC Gary Lattrell, an advisor to the 23d Ranger Battalion, who was awarded the Medal of Honor for valor on 4 - 8 April 1970. Additionally, Colonel Lewis L. Millett, a Medal of Honor recipient during the Korean War, was a member of the first Vietnamese Ranger MTT. Staff Sergeant David Dolby who was previously awarded the Medal of Honor while serving with the First Cavalry Division in 1965, was an advisor to the 44th Ranger Battalion in 1970. LTC Andre Lucas, who served as Senior Advisor, 33d Ranger Battalion in 1963, later received the Medal of Honor posthumously while commanding an infantry battalion in the 101st Airborne Division in 1970. First Sergeant David H. McNerney, who was an advisor with the 20th Special Battalion in 1962, was later awarded the Medal of Honor while serving with Company A, 1st Battalion, 8th Infantry, 4th Infantry Division for actions on 22 March 1967. More than two dozen Ranger Advisors received the Army Distinguished Service Cross or the Navy Cross, the second highest valor award. Finally, nearly 50 American Advisors were killed while fighting alongside their Vietnamese Ranger counterparts. Theirs was the ultimate sacrifice in the performance of their duty.

Memorial
On 11 November 1995, more than 20 years after the fall of Saigon, American Ranger Advisors and their Vietnamese Ranger counterparts gathered at Arlington National Cemetery to unveil a living memorial and bronze plaque to honor their comrades. The plaque reads, "Dedicated to the honor of the Vietnamese Rangers and their American Ranger Advisors whose dedication, valor and fidelity in the defense of freedom must never be forgotten."
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-28-2009, 07:46 PM   #60
D. Michael Kim
Member
 
D. Michael Kim is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 531
Default

These are composite SSI’s for three of four best ranger battalions that were located in 4th Corps. The other the 41,st is MIA at this time

Vietnamese Ranger units and individual soldiers received a wide range of awards for valor and heroism from both the Republic of Vietnam and the United States. The 42nd and 44th Battalions were awarded their country's National Order Fourragere, the 43rd Battalion the Military Order Fourragere, and the 21st, 37th, 41st and 52nd Battalions the Gallantry Cross Fourragere.

Twenty-three Ranger units were awarded the Vietnamese Gallantry Cross with Palm unit award, with the 42nd Battalion receiving the award seven times, the 44th Battalion six times, and the 1st Group and 43rd Battalion each four times.

Eleven U.S. Presidential Unit Citations (PUC) were awarded to Vietnamese Ranger units. The 37th Battalion three times, the 39th and 42d twice, and the 1st Ranger Task Force, 21st, 44th and 52nd Battalions each received the PUC once. The U.S. Valorous Unit Award was awarded to the 21st, 32d, 41st, 43d, 77th and 91st Ranger Battalions.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 4th BDQ SSIs.JPG (70.8 KB, 869 views)

Last edited by D. Michael Kim; 10-28-2009 at 08:34 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com