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Early BGS Fieldgear Reference
Old 10-02-2019, 08:42 PM   #1
Klaus1989
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Default Early BGS Fieldgear Reference

Started to (finally) document my collection recently and thought to share here. A reference thread for the various BGS fieldgear items and their variants is also good idea, because lack of resources or even wrong infos sometimes found. My main focus is early years 1951-early 60s (ca. 1961 or 62, but have a few items from mid 60s), so will not focus on later items here, but others are welcome to.

Will start with ammo pouches with Kar.98k. After WW2 despite mountains of surplus, BGS decided to... make new pouches! Most are like the midwar pattern. No postwar riveted pouches seem to be produced, but someone (TJ?) had wartime example, that was issued to BGS and this is confirmed by period photos. Issued ca. 1951-57, when FN FAL was adopted and Karabiner phased out.

above: Joseph Moll Leder- und Lederwarenfabrik Goch/Rhld. 1953
below: Ackva Lederwaren G.m.b.H., Bad Kreuznach [no date]

Ackva pouch has "Bundesgrenzschutz" property stamp.

Other known postwar makers include Larsen, C. Riese and Karl Böcker (probably others).
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FN-Gewehr pouches
Old 10-02-2019, 08:49 PM   #2
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Default FN-Gewehr pouches

The FN FAL was officially adopted by BGS as "Gewehr FN" to replace Kar.98k in 1957 (later designated G1 by BW). Pouches exist in 2 models: 1st model in canvas made for only a few months, but still issued until wore out in early 60s. 2nd model in leather, production switched in late 1957.

1st model is very rare, so i have only 2nd model. Very consistent among makers and years!

above: H. Rogge, Berlin 1957
middle: Mego 1958; Max Stelzer, Berlin 1958
bottom: Larsen 1959 (matched pair)
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File Type: jpg IMG_8597.jpg (110.6 KB, 132 views)
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Beretta MP pouches
Old 10-02-2019, 08:55 PM   #3
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Default Beretta MP pouches

For MP "Beretta" was introduced pouch based on MP40. It exist in both 40rd. and 20rd. models. The 20rd. is shorter, but otherwise identical (not have example). At first without D-ring, later with D-ring. I suspect, that D-Ring appear after introduction of y-straps with carbine hooks.

Before D-ring on pouch, the belt D-ring was used with y-straps like shown in this press photo from the 1954 Herbstmanöver.
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File Type: jpg beretta.jpg (127.3 KB, 137 views)
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Zweidornkoppel
Old 10-02-2019, 08:59 PM   #4
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Default Zweidornkoppel

Zweidornkoppel (double pronged belt) standard for BGS since begin. Black for Grenzjäger and Wachtmeister ranks, brown for Meister and officers. Unfortunately maker stamps are either absent or too worn to read. Officer belt has ink size stamp.
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Y-straps 1st Model
Old 10-02-2019, 09:06 PM   #5
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Default Y-straps 1st Model

First model y-straps had regular hooks instead of carbine hooks. Change seem to happen sometime in late 1957 or 1958 after the introduction of mag pouches for FN-Gewehr. Normally 1st model not have the end pieces on the straps and 2nd model do and back flap is rounder on 1st model, but there are exceptions.

All same maker Franz Brehme, Walsrode from 1954. I have seen 1 or 2 other makers, but Franz Brehme seem to have largest contract.
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Y-straps 2nd Model
Old 10-02-2019, 09:18 PM   #6
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Default Y-straps 2nd Model

Late 1957 or 1958 was introduced the familiar BGS y-straps with the carbine hooks. Some older y-straps were also updated (like far left here). Best ID is the date stamp. A few details mentioned in last post help also, but are not 100% reliable.

l. to r.:

- Franz Brehme, Walsrode 1954 (converted 1st model). Unit stamp for 12./GSG1
- Larsen 1958 - rarer size 2 (large size). Noticeably longer than normal size!
- Dr. R. Römer 1959 - field modification to bring flap out of the way. I have seen a couple others like this.
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File Type: jpg IMG_8705.jpg (115.3 KB, 131 views)

Last edited by Klaus1989; 10-02-2019 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:21 PM   #7
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Comparison of front and back straps, 1st vs 2nd model.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:23 PM   #8
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Normal size y-straps (size 1?) compared on a size 2 (Übergröße). Back strap is similar length, but front straps are much longer.
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Spades
Old 10-02-2019, 09:48 PM   #9
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Default Spades

BGS straight spades are almost identical with WW2 (welded construction). Carrier is however different - multipiece stitched/riveted construction. Buckle for strap is on right side instead of left and keeper on strap is wire instead of leather.

The Ideal Klappspaten similar with BW (but with more adjustments and black leather carrier) introduced 1961, but straight spades were still issued into mid-late 60s.

left: Carl Krampe Wwe., Rummenohl/Westf. 1952; carrier Carl Busse, Mainz 1952
right: Idealspaten- u. Schaufelwalzwerk GmbH, Herdecke/Ruhr [no date]

Both carriers are stamped "BMdI" and Bundesadler.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:51 PM   #10
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Straight spades continued.
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Brotbeutel 1st Model
Old 10-02-2019, 10:27 PM   #11
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Default Brotbeutel 1st Model

1st model of breadbag was lighter colour and without leather reinforcements on the belt loops. For unknown reason produced with only 1 D-ring/loop like a WW1 breadbag, but lack of attachment for messkits was problem and was often added another D-ring/loop on right side (or 2 leather loops). Leather is low quality and vary including hand stitched and riveted. 1 breadbag has fieldmade leather reinforcement inside belt loop, which show reason for change on later model.

Right breadbag dated 1952. Both have unit stamp for the GS-Bauabteilung Süd in Rosenheim, which was like all GS-Bauabteilungen reorganised and renamed to a Technische Abteilung in 1957.
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:39 PM   #12
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Almost all (or all?) early breadbags modified for attachment of messkit. Photos from my collection and the Technisches Museum BGS Rosenheim (maybe is one of my Brotbeutel?) show how looked originally before modification. Also a view of the 2 loops and a bag in a BGS veterans collection with later added riveted D-ring and mismatched leather.
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Old 10-03-2019, 02:28 AM   #13
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To complete the thread here a set of pictures of the first model of the G1 pouch....

Jens
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:53 PM   #14
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Great thread! Thanks Klaus for getting things started.

Keeping in the theme of the magazine pouches, there is this strange BGS marked set I purchased a number of years ago. I have yet to figure out what the story is behind them. My only guess is very, very, very early on there was some thought of using the MP-40 before selecting the Beretta. This is not too far fetched because the BGS did use surplus WW2 Kar98k, P-38, and MG-42. When you think about it, the Beretta was not the logical choice. Perhaps the MP-40 was too "Nazi" looking?

The construction is extremely close (identical?) to wartime production, but I could find no other markings on them other than the BGS stamp. If they were wartime there should be other marks, so I'm thinking they were manufactured post-war like Klaus' Kar98k pouches.

I'd love to know more about these pouches!

Steve




Last edited by Collectinsteve; 10-03-2019 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:52 PM   #15
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i think, that Jens' canvas pouch is 1 of only 2 examples i have seen! Great photos! I remember it from older thread either here or the multiboard forum.

Steve,

very odd pouches. BGS never used MP40 or a pouch with mag loader and this canvas is imo not BGS either, so not sure reason for BGS stamp, unless has other meaning. Thread look newer than leather to me, but maybe is lighting?

The only other MP mag pouch variant, that i know from BGS is 'Italian type' - Italian appearance, but not match any known Italian pouches for Beretta. It appear in 1 photo from 1954.

Klaus
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