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NSKK leather helmet 1. Pattern
Old 11-19-2019, 02:24 PM   #1
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Default NSKK leather helmet 1. Pattern

Hello,

I got This helmet ..
Rare first pattern eagle..

Can you please check it for me?

Thank you!

Regards
Robin
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:45 PM   #2
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No opinions ?
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:03 PM   #3
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:44 PM   #4
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Real but rough!
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:34 PM   #5
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Thank you!
Yes, the helmet is complete uncleaned..
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Old 11-20-2019, 04:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DALE ELLIS View Post
Real but rough!
+1

B. N. Singer
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Old 11-20-2019, 05:25 PM   #7
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This may be the 2nd style. There are eagles with a horizontal swastika that IMO are the 1st pattern. The eagles are basically the same except for the swastika. They are rather scarce, so whether they are a distinctive '1st model' or an early manufacturer's variation is, I believe, unknown.
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Old 11-20-2019, 06:00 PM   #8
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Nice worn helmet

Here’s a picture of early NSKK helmets (1st model) with a lying swastika (red circle) and a rotated swastika (yellow circle).

The 2nd model NSKK helmet has a larger and stylized eagle with a lettering „NSKK“ above (green circle).
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 15D516B4-2B16-44CB-9853-73CD2A3220E6.jpeg (81.5 KB, 76 views)
File Type: jpeg 788934BE-546F-4112-B20F-0C8E649A9A45.jpeg (79.9 KB, 76 views)
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Old 11-20-2019, 06:19 PM   #9
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What I meant was that I'm not sure whether the horizontal swastika is an early manufacturer's variation or whether it was a legitimate type--if it was a type, it would be, let's say, type 1a, and the diagonal swastika would be type 1b. Nice photo, by the way. Could be Motor SA, as well.
Just noticed that it looks like 'M16' on the tab -- if so it's NSKK.

Erich
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Old 11-21-2019, 04:39 AM   #10
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Hi guys, Hi Robin

can't comment about Helmet, but I would write here my doubt about the eagle. To me, it looks as the common polish fake one. I bought same eagle in the past in Poland and I know well this version.

It would be very important to take a look about the backside/prongs to understand if it is a real one or the polish fake. In my opinion the eagle is not good.

There was a nice thread here on WAF about this NSKK helmet's eagle but I can't find it right now, anyway I attach here 2 pictures of original eagles. You can easily see differences about details, head, legs etc. The most important would be to see the backside.

Robin (ek collector), I hope I'm wrong of course my friend
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg image3.jpeg (33.2 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpeg image2.jpeg (104.9 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpeg image1 (1).jpeg (184.1 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpeg image0 (1).jpeg (175.0 KB, 71 views)
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Old 11-21-2019, 06:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich B. View Post
What I meant was that I'm not sure whether the horizontal swastika is an early manufacturer's variation or whether it was a legitimate type--if it was a type, it would be, let's say, type 1a, and the diagonal swastika would be type 1b. Nice photo, by the way. Could be Motor SA, as well.
Just noticed that it looks like 'M16' on the tab -- if so it's NSKK.

Erich
I don’t know this either, Erich. But this „classification“ makes sense:

Type 1a: early, natural looking eagle with horizontal / lying swastika
Type 1b: early, natural looking eagle with diagonal / rotated swastika
Type 2: late, stylized eagle with diagonal / rotated swastika and lettering „NSKK“ above head

Last edited by ivbaust; 11-21-2019 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 11-21-2019, 07:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivbaust View Post
I don’t know this either, Erich. But this „classification“ makes sense:

Type 1a: early, natural looking eagle with horizontal / lying swastika
Type 1b: early, natural looking eagle with diagonal / rotated swastika
Type 2: late, stylized eagle with diagonal / rotated swastika and lettering „NSKK“ above head
If one can speak of type such and so is the question. In no periodical the eagle with horizontal swastika was mentioned, but since 1933 and 1934,
in advertisements and the RZM, the swastika was canted. Always! If the horizontal swastika was official, then it must have been before 1933 and so practically 1931/1932.
As far as I know and remember the helmet was not a subject in the 1932 "Dienstvorschrift für die SA" and was not mentioned in Heft 1 or 2. The helmet was not mentioned
in order R/1a Nr. 2530/31 from May 15, 1931 about "Anweisung für die Aufstellung SA-Motorstürme"

The large eagle with NSKK indication came into being in June 1939, as when orders were published who had to wear this eagle during the annual
Party Day of that year. Which persons was specified in the NSKK Verordnungsblatt from JUne 1, 1939.

An extended section about NSKK helmets is dealt with in volume 4 from "Headgear of Hitler's Germany" (pages 372 through 403).

Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 11-21-2019 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:16 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Il_brillante View Post
Hi guys, Hi Robin

can't comment about Helmet, but I would write here my doubt about the eagle. To me, it looks as the common polish fake one. I bought same eagle in the past in Poland and I know well this version.

It would be very important to take a look about the backside/prongs to understand if it is a real one or the polish fake. In my opinion the eagle is not good.

There was a nice thread here on WAF about this NSKK helmet's eagle but I can't find it right now, anyway I attach here 2 pictures of original eagles. You can easily see differences about details, head, legs etc. The most important would be to see the backside.

Robin (ek collector), I hope I'm wrong of course my friend
Interesting, I was not aware of the Polish fakes and would like to see the eagle prongs also. Did the "Polish fake" come with a fake helmet also or just the eagle? Thanks Dale
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Old 11-21-2019, 12:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DALE ELLIS View Post
Interesting, I was not aware of the Polish fakes and would like to see the eagle prongs also. Did the "Polish fake" come with a fake helmet also or just the eagle? Thanks Dale
Hi Dale

7 Years ago I found this eagle in Krakow, there were 5/6 same eagles on a flea market's table: same rust, same fake aging. They are well recognizable by the backside
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Old 11-21-2019, 09:47 PM   #15
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Would want to see some silver wash on a good eagle or at least some remains of it. If not, thats not a good sign.

Robt.
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