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Eagle-head german sword id pls.
Old 02-08-2018, 08:51 PM   #1
inimicus
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Default Eagle-head german sword id pls.

I think interesting sword which I'd guess is imp. german nco of some kind of lo-ranking officer. straight plain blade, double-fullered. no blade markings but on guard and scabbard top there are unmatching ones - what are they please? the scabbard ones look re-struck. maybe this was an export model? thanks for the help!
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:52 PM   #2
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3-4 now I see it the guard looks overstamped too
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:53 PM   #3
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last, thanks again
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Old 02-09-2018, 08:19 AM   #4
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Not quite matching numbers and letters ! Thats an odd one I would fully expect a German sword to have a makers mark at the top of the blade . Just a case of googling till you find a similar sword . Rob

Prison and Justice officials had Eagle headed swords . Rob
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:57 AM   #5
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cheers robb! that focuses my checking a lot. any idea of era? I'm guessing pre-WWI - weimar?
and on the guard, L.G. 100 = 'Landesgruppe 100' mebbe?

I looked best I could under langets and nothing there unless the mark's a light strike

anybody else? thanks. maybe I should also check in with the intnl. sword forum now I think of it…

Horrido!
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:26 AM   #6
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Eagle head swords are usually associated with the state of Mecklinburg and your sword is certainly not later than WW1. In my experience eagle heads are relatively scarce. Not sure about the LG100. This type sword is usually artillery related.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:54 AM   #7
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bowing in your direction, barry. (but not the sword forum's -it's got new directors it seems and is just about expired. regrettable)

I'd asked about justice/prison b/c the eagle's head shape and embellishment looks a lot like it might've inspired the IIId reich designers.

anyhow I'm thankful for this fine help.

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Eagle head swords are usually associated with the state of Mecklinburg and your sword is certainly not later than WW1. In my experience eagle heads are relatively scarce. Not sure about the LG100. This type sword is usually artillery related.
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:04 AM   #8
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An interesting sword that has been reworked and re-issued IMHO.

First markings were the "M.S.G. 300" markings as seen clearly on the scabbard and are ground and re-stamped on the guard. The scabbard has been modified by roughly grinding the flats of the scabbard throat to make it fit the sword. However, I suspect this was done during the time of use, when the first lone "3" marking was applied and subsequently cancelled in the regulation manner for such obsolete markings. I don't know what the M.S.G. markings indicate but I suspect they indicate something such as a Military Prison such as a Militar Gefangnis on this style of eagle head pommel sword.

The M.S.G. markings on the guard have been ground away and overstamped with "L.G.100" while the "300" Waffe-nummer marking on the scabbard has also been overstamped with 100 to force match the scabbard to the sword. This L.G. marking generally indicates the Prussian Land Gendarmerie.

So, I suspect your sword was originally issued to a Military Prison and was subsequently re-issued to the Land Gendarmerie.

Very interesting armorer work.

I hope this is helpful.
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry G View Post
Eagle head swords are usually associated with the state of Mecklinburg and your sword is certainly not later than WW1. In my experience eagle heads are relatively scarce. Not sure about the LG100. This type sword is usually artillery related.
Barry may well be right. The original M.S.G. markings might indicate the Mecklenburg-Strelitzsche Gendarmerie or the old Mecklenburg-Schwerinsche Gendarmerie. The overstamped markings may simply indicate a name change from these older Gendarmerie forms to a newer generically named Mecklenburg Land Gendarmerie.
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:50 AM   #10
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Fascinating history that has been pieced together . Rob
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Old 02-09-2018, 12:24 PM   #11
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indeed! thanks so much to all. so, period wise perhaps 1880-1900 +- ? I cant find another so assume pretty scarce, correct?

interesting the scabb top screws were removed - I guess b/c as said blade would now be force-fed, force-fit (langets gripping scab. throat) so runners inside weren't needed any more…?


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Old 02-09-2018, 05:46 PM   #12
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I read the comments with interest, and here is my input on the sword: Police generally wore sabers with curved blades with one fuller, but this one is straight and multi-fullered like the Prussian IOD89 that had a basket type hilt. But there was an exception with the straight bladed multi-fullered blades mounted in what was known as the “Fusilier-Montur” style hilt that most call a “P” guard with just a single knuckle bow. Likewise, the relatively scarce Eagle Head backstrap is seen on some Prussian Officer swords (and a non-related Prussian hunting blade) that were carried by at least two Prussian cavalry regiments - one being the Garde-Dragoner-Regiment Nr. 2, and the other Garde-Ulanen-Regiment Nr. 1.

With the sword as it is now (IMO) obviously not having the benefit of being factory assembled in its current configuration. With one additional factor being the fact that quite few of the formerly obsolete swords in German arsenals that have survived and are in collections now sometimes were reissued, and reissued again and again. Something that can complicate trying to identify markings in general because some armorers seem to have made up their own rules. So if it was in hand I would be looking at all of the small details in trying to figure out just how it was put tother, and for what purpose. FP
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Old 02-09-2018, 06:08 PM   #13
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cheers and kind regards, FP. here are images of the pommel top. interesting that someone when assembling the sword put in then smoothed over lead solder in the screwdriver notch of the tang cover. nice touch. was that a usual operation, please?
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Old 02-09-2018, 07:03 PM   #14
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I see the sword is on Ebay @ $34.00 and identified as a WW1 justice sword. ?????
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Old 02-09-2018, 07:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inimicus View Post
cheers and kind regards, FP. here are images of the pommel top. interesting that someone when assembling the sword put in then smoothed over lead solder in the screwdriver notch of the tang cover. nice touch. was that a usual operation, please?
Yes and no. Some swords/sabers were made so that the hilts/handles could be removed without too much effort, and some were not requiring some serious effort. But none of the period types that I can think of had secondary work done like soldering to disable a screwdriver slot or holes for a spanner wrench so that they could not be used. Regards, FP
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