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Old 12-09-2019, 06:12 AM   #61
viva_giulio
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self-referential Doc.

I would never write "I am very well able to Judge any Tunic"

I never heard very advanced collector to say that.

Cheers.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:17 AM   #62
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Thats then your Problem. What i am abel to do or not i know at best myself. Like it or not. Do i need a Army of Internet Experts to Judge a Tunic? I dont think so. I prefer to have any Tunic in my Hands what is difficult, then i will be knowing what is going on without a Doubt. Here it is what it is, and i post what it is to me. Since when i need to change what i Think about something just because someone else write something else....not really. You believe what you believe and i do that as well. Who is right will that one be able to tell us who buy that Thing. If the Price would be a bit more normal, i would go for it, just to know if i am right or wrong. It can be very well all belong together, stripped when the war ends, and then put back together from a Tailor who know his Job. There are a few who are able to do a Job like this and let everyone looks like a Moron, including me who try to Judge it.


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Originally Posted by viva_giulio View Post
self-referential Doc.

I would never write "I am very well able to Judge any Tunic"

I never heard very advanced collector to say that.

Cheers.

Last edited by AntiqueWW2; 12-09-2019 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:36 AM   #63
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I am not a believer I suggest to be more cautious with items you do not have in hands. I would manage too and this is an item typically to handle.

I do not agree when you say he try to attach the name. Seems a bad intention. Sometimes you have not proofs, sometimes you have weak, sometimes strong.

He ask 11. Too much? Maybe.
As many many items you can find in estand.

Ps: why nobody writes about the butchers collectors in photo estand section who destroying albums every month (or every week) , splitting them also in catawiki, eBay etc... This guy asked an amount and present a story and seems he is under trial.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:49 AM   #64
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I agree with what you write. Maybe i see Things different because i don't need to make Money with my Hobby. I personal take very good Care to know what i buy, and on First Place for me is always to have a Name to an Item what i can then research and know what i own. Without this, i would have a lot nice Items but without a Soul. That is why when i read this belongs to that Guy but can't see any Proof that it is so, and then a Price is asked what is way too high for what it is, i start to ask Quesions. Others maybe total Happy with something like this, i am not. At the End, when someone pays 11K for that Tunic and at one Point later on like to sell it for the same Price, he should simple know what he buys. And until the Seller not have a solid Proof what backs up the Story, then it should be sold without a Story as what it is. Still a nice Tunic what will look great at Display.

Not really worth to write about the Peopel who butcher a Group or Album. They are what they are, and for me personal a Bunch of Idiots. I spent years and tons of Money to put a Group back together, others split it up just to make a few more Euro out of it. Perfect way to preserve History...


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Originally Posted by viva_giulio View Post
I am not a believer I suggest to be more cautious with items you do not have in hands. I would manage too and this is an item typically to handle.

I do not agree when you say he try to attach the name. Seems a bad intention. Sometimes you have not proofs, sometimes you have weak, sometimes strong.

He ask 11. Too much? Maybe.
As many many items you can find in estand.

Ps: why nobody writes about the butchers collectors in photo estand section who destroying albums every month (or every week) , splitting them also in catawiki, eBay etc... This guy asked an amount and present a story and seems he is under trial.
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Old 12-09-2019, 08:08 AM   #65
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any tunic is what it is, I buy never the story except with solid proof. But even proof is getting doctored. The seller asks for 11k maybe when a potential offer comes he reduces the price who knows.
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Old 12-09-2019, 12:35 PM   #66
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I have to agree with AntiqueWW2 that provenance should be provided. Without provenance it is just a story. Sometimes less important but for an item in this price range, with a price which is (partly) based on the story, it is mandatory imo to provide provenance.
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Old 12-09-2019, 02:28 PM   #67
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I told in my first text that I cannot proof it belongs to Walter Iden , but it is the story that comes with the tunic. There is no provenance at all. And what everybody says , you buy the item and not the story, and that is what it is. Then just forget the (in my opinion true) story , it is still and very nice early type tunic.

First "experts" mention that some parts are re-sewn, apperantly they can see this straight away from, what they call later, blurred pictures , very odd in my opinion.

By the way, what are we talking about, a 2 inch long stitch, what looks suspicious, it does not mean it is postwar. He might have replaced the collar patches during the war, Nobody can tell , not you and not me. We will never find this out.

But I made some extra pictures , and this is the best I can.

Have a look at the pictures and just make up your own mind , and stop this stupid discussion , it looks a bit like Kindergarden.

Merry xmas and happy new year
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Old 12-09-2019, 02:29 PM   #68
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And some extra pictures of the cufftitle
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Old 12-09-2019, 02:31 PM   #69
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And if you still think my tunic is expensive , then have a look:
https://www.weitze.net/militaria/11/...S__287011.html
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Old 12-09-2019, 02:48 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voelender View Post
And if you still think my tunic is expensive , then have a look:

https://www.weitze.net/militaria/11/...S__287011.html
WOW that IS expensive!!
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Old 12-09-2019, 02:52 PM   #71
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very nice quality "G" cyphers by the way

I have enough Material even from my old neigbour who served in the DR. How I should proof the provenance its from him? Trust me I dont care for it as someday I also just can tell the story.
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Old 12-09-2019, 02:55 PM   #72
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Posts of SS Officer tunics never disappoint!🥵

There is zero down side in calling anything post war altered or “doctored” as this claim can never be proven right or wrong unless fake insignia is involved or polyester based thread is detected.

As for this tunic a couple things strike me:
All of the insignia seems consistent in wear and age with each other and with the tunic. That is fairly significant as it is not easy to find and match up.

The cuff title and board’s especially look to me to have been on that tunic forever. The tabs and eagle also look very embedded but the title is as fitted to that cuff as I’ve ever seen on a turnback cuff.

Folks talk about the asking price, but try to find the number tab and board devices on the loose and what would you pay? Add up all insignia and see where you are at.

If the attribution is correct and may or may not be able to prove some day with photo, it is a big deal to find pre war VT era tunic to later Wiking division infantry officer with DKG.

We know due to ribbons the he wore this tunic well into 42. I don’t know when he was promoted to Captain but must have been 43 latest.
I find it odd but possible he was still wearing the numbered tab in late 42 but maybe not that odd on an occasional walking out tunic.
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:08 PM   #73
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by viva_giulio View Post
I find your reply, Vince, totally no sense.
The guy is European yesterday was a Catholic holiday first day of Xmas time on a typical family weekend, today is working. Could you wait him?
I do not know this guy, indeed .
I am not him friend I do not really know him but... Jesus who are you to ask in this way pics?
If he wants he will do. He open a thread asking 11k, is a problem? Estand have many items now with unreasonable price, is a crime?
We will wait photos if will arrive.
Is not a trial here.
We are not judges.

When you are trying to sell a 11,000-euro tunic, to post low def pictures is disrespectul (and imo stupid) to anyone checking your tunic, including potential buyers, period.


I'm personally feed up with those ridiculously bad pictures asked for thousand or dozen of thousand euro items everywhere on the net.
And about the period we are in, for 11k, any good seller will be able to provide GOOD pictures, even more for an unamed tunic, despite the seller is implying that it is the one of Walter Inden.
Check Weitze or Ratisbons... Even for crapy and cheap items they provide professional pictures.
To put ads on the WAF is 35 usd per year, for that price i think that you can try to use correctly a cellphone or a camera.

This is incredible to have to discuss that matter.

To me this is pure logic that the more expensive an item is, the more "good" pictures do you need...

The WAF is here to discuss items, to potentially protect members from possible fakes, or praise "incredible" items.

Also i will point out that the seller has the time to reply to some people that are questioning or asking more infos about the tunic, but do not have the time to post better pictures or reply to the question about the provenance of his tunic, provenance he implied himself (Walter Inden)...

We can also notice that I posted the "upgraded" pictures, the seller (nor anyone else) took the time...
The goal is not to burn the item or the seller, but to help other WAF members to discuss this tunic. And in a way help the seller to present his item.

We all know how end ads with defensive seller and bad pictures...

See You

Vince
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:15 PM   #74
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I stay with what i posted. Insignias are resewn. Possible the Effects belong to that Tunic, impossible to tell this. To compare that Tunic with a SS Gala Jacket is if anything funnym, unlike this Tunic the Gala is worth that Price. I am able to Count, so yes i did add up the Numbers, and no matter how often i do it, i never end at 11K, not even close.

And for a last time, just in case someone turn what i write in something else. It IS a nice original Tunic, with very nice original Insignias, not more not less, and again, if the Price would be a bit more in a normal Range, i would myself go for it, because it is one of the few Tunic i would like to have in Hands to know what is going on for sure.

P.S The Pictures are still same low Quality as before, and Vince wrote just that. If you sell a high Price Item, get a good Camera to make good Pictures. That would help for sure.
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:41 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchVolunteer View Post
I'm personally feed up with those ridiculously bad pictures asked for thousand or dozen of thousand euro items everywhere on the net.
Me too Vince, there really is no excuse for crappy photos these days.
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