wehrmacht awards

Air Ministry Denison Smock
Old 09-28-2004, 05:44 AM   #1
Guy
Member
 
Guy is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: albion
Posts: 1,063
Default Air Ministry Denison Smock

Hi Chaps,

A friend of mine owns this smock and would like to know a little more about the owner. I have searched the net and various publications but have come up with very little. I am trying to purchase this piece but I think my friend wants to know as much as possible before he sells The owners name was Major General PT Tower. My friend has been led to believe that he was Brigade major of artillery to the 1'st Airborne at Arnhem. I have been unable to prove or disprove this. Embarrasingly enough the only reference I have found to him is as chairman of the RA yacht club in the 60's.

So what we have is a Windak Air Ministry Denison made of the very fine windproof material, with full zip as was apparently normal for these and AM poppers as opposed to Neweys; They are identical to those used on flying helmets and Mae Wests but with a brass plating on the outer female section. Even without provenence it is a fabulous and extremely rare thing and I would love to own it. The fabric is a bit of a joke and totally unsuited to parachute jumping, hence I suspect, all the damage and field repairs. It is double layered but still not man enough for the job.

Anyway, I would be fascinated to hear any opinions you may have regarding the garment or the original owner.

Many Thanks In Advance, Yours, Guy.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tower1.jpg (33.6 KB, 1137 views)

Last edited by Guy; 09-28-2004 at 05:53 AM.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 05:47 AM   #2
Guy
Member
 
Guy is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: albion
Posts: 1,063
Default

2
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tower2.jpg (42.4 KB, 1126 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 05:48 AM   #3
Guy
Member
 
Guy is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: albion
Posts: 1,063
Default

3
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tower3.jpg (54.2 KB, 1119 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 05:50 AM   #4
Guy
Member
 
Guy is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: albion
Posts: 1,063
Default

4
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tower4.jpg (34.2 KB, 1108 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 05:51 AM   #5
Guy
Member
 
Guy is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: albion
Posts: 1,063
Default

5
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tower5.jpg (40.0 KB, 1103 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 11:57 AM   #6
DJT
Association Member
 
DJT's Avatar
 
DJT is offline
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 2,806
Default

Hi Guy,

Never heard of an Air ministry smock before. Looking at the photo, would I be right in thinking the 2 rear snaps are silver coloured? I`m a strong believer that rear silver snaps = postwar smock.

Also I know its not your collection but I hate the way this guy has his helmets just stacked on top of each other. That could damage not only the paint jobs but also the liners
__________________
Regards,

Des
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 02:56 PM   #7
Guy
Member
 
Guy is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: albion
Posts: 1,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Thomas
Hi Guy,

Never heard of an Air ministry smock before. Looking at the photo, would I be right in thinking the 2 rear snaps are silver coloured? I`m a strong believer that rear silver snaps = postwar smock.

Also I know its not your collection but I hate the way this guy has his helmets just stacked on top of each other. That could damage not only the paint jobs but also the liners
Hi Des

Air ministry smocks are not well documented but they do exist. The snaps are indeed bright, as they are steel. they are the same snaps as flying helmets etc. The tail actually fastens on the inside rear of the smock.

As for the stacked helmets, they are actually mine and each one has a layer of bubble wrap between them. with only limited space and about 40 helmets I can't display them all to the best advantage. trust me there are no fibre rims or US jump lids in the piles. The ss helmet cover on the shell was just placed there whilst I took the photos as it lives on a head where the dummy is.

Does anyone remember or have accsess to the articles written for Airfix magazine in the 70's as I believe these smocks are featured in there. Militaria magazine also poached the articles in the 80's or 90's. I met the author at beltring this year but can't remember his name. It's Ian something. Perhaps the older collectors out there will be able to help us out here.

Cheers, Guy.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 03:13 PM   #8
Adrian Stevenson
Administrator
 
Adrian Stevenson's Avatar
 
Adrian Stevenson is offline
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South Derbyshire, Great Britain.
Posts: 22,603
Default

Hi Guy, sent you a PM on the author. I have never seen one of these smocks but have heard of them.

The 1st Air Landing Light Regt connection is correct. But how would like General Tower's home address? I have it, but I do not know if he is still alive?



Cheers, Ade.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 03:24 PM   #9
DJT
Association Member
 
DJT's Avatar
 
DJT is offline
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 2,806
Default

Hi Guy,

Out of curiousity, Why would the Air Ministry produce and issue their own version of a Denison Smock? and who is meant to have worn them? That alone makes no sense to me

Personally, unless an item like this had 100% provenence or came direct from a vet I would`nt touch it. The fact it does`nt have Newey buttons, it has a full zip (Majority of airborne collectors accept 98% of full zips are post war modifications) and it has a weird unwartime like looking maker label would make me steer well clear of it. Maybe I`m completely wrong though and your right, it is some undocumented rarity but you asked for opinions and thats mine
__________________
Regards,

Des
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 03:57 PM   #10
Guy
Member
 
Guy is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: albion
Posts: 1,063
Default

Ade you're a gent,

Thats the lad. I thought I had an anorak for anoraks but he knocked me into a cocked hat. All the research I am now doing the bugger bid 30 years ago. His manuscripts were lost in a house move which is tragic as it would disprove a lot of the bs dogma which is flying around now. I think It's important we try to locate these articles. Isn't it wierd how information can be lost in such a short time and has to be re-discovered.

I am gob smacked that you have Major General Tower's address, is there no end to your contacts If you don't mind I would love to write to see if he is alive and if so perhaps correspond with him regarding this smock.

Des sorry mate but your'e way off the mark. Last year I had the honour of handling a denison with a full zip, internal hood, arse map pocket and internally bagged slash pockets like a Fallschirmjager smock, mind you it did have brass neweys, lol. What would you have thought of that. In actuality it was identical to the one made for Browning which I believe now or did reside in Aldershot; the guy bought it surplus with 3 others for 200 quid five years ago. . Theres no justice.

Thanks for all your help lads.

Yours, Guy.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 04:09 PM   #11
Adrian Stevenson
Administrator
 
Adrian Stevenson's Avatar
 
Adrian Stevenson is offline
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South Derbyshire, Great Britain.
Posts: 22,603
Default

Hi Guy, would you like Ian's address too

I will PM you with General Tower's address. It was vaild 9 years ago.

Cheers, Ade.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 04:43 PM   #12
Guy
Member
 
Guy is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: albion
Posts: 1,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Stevenson
Hi Guy, would you like Ian's address too

I will PM you with General Tower's address. It was vaild 9 years ago.

Cheers, Ade.


I owe you a big hangover mate.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 04:51 PM   #13
Jack Dutton-Roberts
Association Member
 
Jack Dutton-Roberts's Avatar
 
Jack Dutton-Roberts is offline
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Birkenhead, near Liverpool, United Kingdom.
Posts: 3,077
Default

I really like this Denison Smock, Guy
I reckon this stands a very good chance of being a wartime smock.

-The material and pattern of camouflage used is identical to that used in both dated and documented Denison Smocks.
-The full zip was a common thing amongst Generals. You only have to flick through a few books to see Gale, Browning etc. wearing them.
-Even though all the fittings are made of steel it doesn't mean it is post-war. Remember this is an Air Ministry Denison Smock. Fittings on some wartime RAF flight helmets were steel.
-Nice officer wing certainly doesn't look like it has been added yesterday!

Des, about Air Ministry Denison Smocks. I have heard about them before but I have never actually seen one. I must therefore assume they are rare?

Un-wartime looking label? Maybe it does look a little un-wartime but sadly we don't have any production dates for these as yet
__________________
"They shall not grow old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them."
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 05:00 PM   #14
Guy
Member
 
Guy is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: albion
Posts: 1,063
Default

Hi Jacko,

Nice of you to chime in on this mate. Your'e right, the material is just like that (Browning type) smock we examined last year isn't it. I wonder if Windak held the patent on this material. I must get on to the patent office in Brum and see what they say. I think it's fairly imperative that we find the articles Ian wrote as I think there is probably a lot of really usefull info in them. Talk to you soon I hope.

Yours, Guy.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-28-2004, 05:09 PM   #15
Jack Dutton-Roberts
Association Member
 
Jack Dutton-Roberts's Avatar
 
Jack Dutton-Roberts is offline
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Birkenhead, near Liverpool, United Kingdom.
Posts: 3,077
Default

Just looking at it again...

If that isn't a wartime smock I'd be surprised. What would be the need for the AM to produce these post-war? It would make more sense if they were only produced during the war due to the increased demand.

Also, the zipper isn't one off the Oversmock, is it? So, it can't have been one of the mass converted ones that were done in the 1950s...can it?

It may not what the "textbook" collector may want because it isn't the "standard" pattern of Denison but who cares? Send it my way and I'd be more than happy with it
__________________
"They shall not grow old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them."
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WW2 British Airborne forces "Denison" 2nd pattern Camo smock Adrian Stevenson British and Commonwealth Militaria 21 12-16-2014 02:28 AM
General Tibbets!!! Paul V U.S. Militaria Forum 10 11-01-2007 06:32 PM
Variations in jump smock color John Hodgin Fallschirmjäger Forum 7 12-09-2002 09:56 AM
heer camo smock alexandre Heer Uniforms and Insignia Forum 4 09-24-2002 09:10 PM
FJ smock eagles Willi Z. Fallschirmjäger Forum 9 03-24-2002 12:47 PM






vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com