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Bundesrepublik Deutschland, 1949-Present From West Germany through to the modern reunified German Republic.

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Old 04-25-2011, 06:20 PM   #76
Guardian 5
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Jens - Nice tunic!

Forseti - Welcome to the forum.

All the best - TJ
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:16 PM   #77
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Forseti,

We are in agreement about the 1962 tunics and the early ones probably having pointed shoulder boards. As yo say, you have one in your collection. They are very hard to find.
We talked about the colar piping in another thread just a few days ago. Here is the link to that thread.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=509277

Regards,

Gordon


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forseti View Post
Hi!

I am not sure about the dating of the jacket above. I just want to mention that most early tunics I saw had rounded boards. Other problem is that most officer uniforms directly bought from the Kleiderkasse had no datings on their labels.
I dont say they didnt exist ( i have one in my collection) i just say that they early changed to rounded boards.

Yes. there are in deed some mysteries on early bundeswehr uniforms. But I know i ve read something in Kunstwadl talking about 1962. If november or whenever I dont know without having the book in my hand. I ll have to check the labels of my tunics I guess.

there is also a mysterie with the collarpiping and the piping on the trousers. It seems that it just had been in use for a few months. Kunstwadl says little about it and no concrete dates. As far as I have in mind (i am no superbrain PC at all) the book "Ausstattungsoll.." says also nothing clear about it. So much reseacrh-work do be done by us collectors
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:38 AM   #78
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@all: thanks for the positive feedback on the jacket!

Oposite to man others this label does not show a clear date but I agree that it is most possible that it was made in 1962... and so it is exactely from phase the transition beween pointed and roundet shoulderboards took place. But I´m sure that this jacket was originaly produced with pointed boards as these aplied are made from another type of fabric then the jacket (Yes Daniel, it apears to be of a lighter type then other jackets ...) Comparing the fabric allways tells this story ... and it´s no wonder for me that this was done ... professional officers or NCO would have upgraded ther stuff as they had put their own money in purchasing new stile jackets in 1958 which became old stile only 4 years later ... the same with issued tunics which were collected from those leaving the Bundeswehr. Why they should be disposed if the could be modified very easy ?

Regads,

Jens
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Old 04-26-2011, 05:13 AM   #79
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I see there have been a few posts since I have been away for Easter. Firstly thanks Gordon for the info regarding the hanger. I think I will look around for one and put it on the jacket...I appreciate your effort there. Jens that is a nice jacket and the more of these early jackets I see the more I can understand why you guys seek them out. I have yet to see one for sale despite a bit of searching on my part. Eventually I hope.

Dewayne I do have ideas in my head and if you will bear with me I will take a few pics in about a week of my "room" so you will get some idea of what I have on display...its not a lot but I only have a small room. I will get back to you and appreciate any advice you may want to offer.

Phil
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:07 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemm View Post
Now that leads me to another question. Guys on WW2 german tunics they sewed loops for all their awards although I do have one tunic that a ribbon bar was worn pinned through the uniform but in the main they had loops. My artillery Hauptmann's tunic just has the ribbon bar pinned through the cloth and the badge pinned into the cloth. Is this the norm. I have seen on a jacket made 1974 a set of loops for ribbon bar but that was the only one. Has the practice of loops faded out?

Phil
Hi Phil!

I can not speak for all tunics out there, but on the tunics I had in my hands I can say that the loops apear mostly (if not all) on early tunics. It has to do with the general social evolution that today no one goes to a tailor to let do him such things. In the 50ies and 60ies it was quite common to let a tailor doing such job (as it was in WW2).
Second thing is that nowadays the mentality is that most people dont care about their clothing. So didnt do soldiers. It was different in the generation of WW2 and early Bundeswehr. Clothing was well done and it was expensive. Still in the 60ies people had their good Sonntagsanzug (suit for sundays). It was just too expensive and they just took more care of it.

Nowadays Clothing is one of the cheapest things you own.

Just look on the cloth they used in 1956 or even in 1965. It was very similar to WW2 Trikot (Strichtuch). When you hold a modern uniform in your hands it just feels like plastic... its just the way it is...
Hope you understand what I am trying to say.

best wishes
Michael
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:33 PM   #81
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Another reason, I think, for the decline in quality of dress uniforms... soldiers are far more likely to wear their combat uniforms every day rather than their dress uniforms. I know people in the BW that said they wore their Dienstanzug 2 or 3 times in their basic service. Once for swearing in and a couple of formal inspections. So why put a lot of money into something that is going to sit in the closet 95% of the time?

Steve
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:14 AM   #82
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Thanks Michael for your input and that makes perfect sense.

Phil
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Old 05-06-2011, 03:44 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collectinsteve View Post
Another reason, I think, for the decline in quality of dress uniforms... soldiers are far more likely to wear their combat uniforms every day rather than their dress uniforms. I know people in the BW that said they wore their Dienstanzug 2 or 3 times in their basic service. Once for swearing in and a couple of formal inspections. So why put a lot of money into something that is going to sit in the closet 95% of the time?

Steve
Steve,

you are absolutely right,

for enlisted men: they just wear it a few times. In my 12 months duty I just wore the tunic when we trained the Anzugsordnung. Thereafter I had to wore it when being send to my main unit. After that I just wore it one time when we have been sent to a Gedenkmesse (religious thing) - after it no more.
We just did not wear it on our Gelöbnis-ceremony (when you swear to make your duty blablabla) (it was summer we just wore our Moleskin Trousers with Moleskin Jacktes, Berets, Belt, boots.)
One time I was the Flaggenwache (men with arms that protect the flag) when new recruits had their Gelöbnis. And even when the Musicans (Musikkorps) wore grey tunics, then we just wore moleskin.

However:

The husband of my sister is Officer (Major now) and they of course wear it more often (depending on their service every day). Officers and sergs is a different thing. But as I wrote above it is another era now. Nowadays they mostly stick the medals just right through the cloth of their jackts.


Michael

Last edited by Forseti; 05-06-2011 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:17 AM   #84
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This is a great thread, lots of good information.

Can anyone help me identify the time period for this Captain's uniform? The stars are much bigger than those on a First Lieutenant's uniform I have from the mid-1990s period. The French cuffs are true cuffs like on TR tunics.
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:34 AM   #85
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usmedalman,

Probably early to mid 1960s time frame for your tunic. Look in the inside right breast pocket for a makers mark. It may give you a date of manufacture. The makers info will be stamped in black ink on the pocket material. These tunics were usually made by KKB. If it has KKB on the label as the maker it is earlier than if it says KKBw. We are not sure when the KKB makings changed to KKBw but more than likely in the late 60s.

Regards,

Gordon
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Old 09-22-2011, 07:59 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Craig View Post
usmedalman,

Probably early to mid 1960s time frame for your tunic. Look in the inside right breast pocket for a makers mark. It may give you a date of manufacture. The makers info will be stamped in black ink on the pocket material. These tunics were usually made by KKB. If it has KKB on the label as the maker it is earlier than if it says KKBw. We are not sure when the KKB makings changed to KKBw but more than likely in the late 60s.

Regards,

Gordon

Gordon, sure enough, when I turned the pocket inside out there is a stamp, unfortunately it is too faided out to read -- the tunic is well worn. Attached is a photo of the KKB label sewn to the lining right at the outside seam of the inside pocket.
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Old 09-23-2011, 07:52 AM   #87
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usmedalman,

Since the KKB label is on the pocket you can take a guess at the early 60s without seeing the stamps inside the pocket.

Regards,

Gordon
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:12 AM   #88
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Another two from my collection: 60ies made issued NCO summertunic ...









..and a 50ies made two pocket tunic of an NCO of the AA-branch, most possible restored to 50ies regulations (Sanella Emblems and missing Litzen on the shoulderboards)








Jens
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:02 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemm View Post
I see there have been a few posts since I have been away for Easter. Firstly thanks Gordon for the info regarding the hanger. I think I will look around for one and put it on the jacket...I appreciate your effort there. Jens that is a nice jacket and the more of these early jackets I see the more I can understand why you guys seek them out. I have yet to see one for sale despite a bit of searching on my part. Eventually I hope.

Dewayne I do have ideas in my head and if you will bear with me I will take a few pics in about a week of my "room" so you will get some idea of what I have on display...its not a lot but I only have a small room. I will get back to you and appreciate any advice you may want to offer.

Phil
Sounds good Lemm, just shoot me a message when you have the pictures
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:12 PM   #90
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Here's some updates to my West German collection a group of Heer tunics, with a couple of World War II veteran tunics in there











And my other Luftwaffe tunic

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