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Der Untergang
Old 02-09-2005, 02:38 PM   #1
junior
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Der Untergang

Hi chaps,
I just returned from Der Untergang, pretty nice movie but some little mistakes... What do you think of it?
Regards,
Junior
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Old 02-10-2005, 08:18 AM   #2
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Hi Junior.

The movie hasn't been showed in the small country of Denmark yet. So I'm still waiting to see it.
There has been a lot of writing about it in the Danish papers, and the papers thought the movie was very good.
I have seen the trailer, and it looks like a must see.

Kind regards
Jakob

PS: What are the mistakes you discovered?
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Old 02-10-2005, 08:27 AM   #3
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Hi Junior,

I have seen it last Year (I am in Germany) and I found it really good. (What is funny I could not find any German (my collegues denied as well) to go with me and watch it).

It is not a documental film so any mistakes can be easily forgotten. I found it VERY realistic. I recommend it to everyone

PS: Soo it will be available on DVD!!!
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Old 02-10-2005, 09:01 AM   #4
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Hi all,

I can recommend it to everyone as long as you see it in the cinema on BIG SCREEN, the ultra dolby-surround system...mmm...great sound... When it will be out on DVD I'll be the first to get one!
Junior
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Old 02-10-2005, 09:36 AM   #5
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Patience is the key

The DVD release has been forseen to be on the 15.03. so nearly a month to go...
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Old 02-19-2005, 05:40 AM   #6
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The film premiered here in Norway yesterday.


A very good film indeed. I don't know how it looked for 'the average person' ie. someone not familiar with the history or the characters.
As someone who knows the history, especially all the different events which are so well recorded i thought it was very well done. For example, when Hitler awards EKII's to members of the HJ on the 20th of April, it's known that this was the last film to be taken of Hitler, and you saw a cameraman filming the ceremony from the same angle as the original footage. A small detail only a history nerd would pick up on but i liked that kind of attention to detail.

One of the things which threw me the most was recognising all the characters. Bruno Ganz played Hitler superbly IMO but many of the other individuals were difficult to recognise until someone mentioned their name or their uniform or role gave them away. But then again i'm used to seeing pictures of the real people. Keitel for example i only figured out because of the moustache prior to his name being mentioned. Jodl, Burgdorf and Krebs were difficult.


Well worth watching. I even saw a good closeup of a Soldbuch (as Weidling presented himself at the führer bunker) and an EKII doc
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Old 02-19-2005, 12:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junior
I can recommend it to everyone as long as you see it in the cinema on BIG SCREEN, the ultra dolby-surround system...mmm...great sound... When it will be out on DVD I'll be the first to get one!
It opened in NYC yesterday and I caught an afternoon showing. However...it was only playing at Film Forum. I hate indie movie houses that sell more coffee than popcorn. And I seriously doubt this theater is set up for Dolby Digitial--all the speakers seem to be in the front. The screen is also small and the ratio isn't really "widescreen." Most art houses tend to be around a 16:11 rather than the necessary 16:9, which is true widescreen. This is because these were typically theaters from pre-WWII when movie ratios were the same as TV. So a 4:3 movie would be ideal. No one really goes out and builds an art house theater!

So, I'll get a better experience when it is on DVD as I have a 5.1 sysem with Klipsch Reference Series 5 speakers, and a 42" plasma set.
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untergang
Old 02-19-2005, 03:44 PM   #8
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what is this film about anybody??chay
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Old 02-19-2005, 04:40 PM   #9
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One goof: Hermann Fegelein with a Gold CCC???

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Chris
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hermann
Old 02-19-2005, 04:54 PM   #10
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do you think its pants??
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Old 02-19-2005, 06:31 PM   #11
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http://www.deruntergang-special.film.de/



I liked the scene where Weidling goes into the bunker. Burgdorf and Krebs have a go at him and he holds his RK and says something like "You see this? don't take that tone with me!"

Saw a ribbon bar the wrong way round. Wait til it comes out on DVD and we can have a fun little thread picking up on all the small uniform and medal details.
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Decline and fall: Character Study of "Downfall"
Old 02-19-2005, 07:22 PM   #12
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Default Decline and fall: Character Study of "Downfall"

Decline and Fall

While the story and subject matter have been used in other films--notably The Bunker and Hitler: The Last Ten Days--Downfall (Der Untergang) focuses on the human element of the final days of Nazi Germany as the Soviet Juggernaut closes in on Berlin. With the Thousand Year Reich in ruin Hitler, played by Bruno Ganz, and his closest compatriots have retreated to the bunker complex under the Reich Chancellery.
Yet rather than merely covering the events in this underground lair, where the most vile despot of the 20th century spent his final moments, Downfall manages to show the actual circumstances of the surrounding neighborhood. Here we see how the city lies in near total ruin, as the civilian Volksstrom fight a hopeless war against superior Soviet troops and even in the darkest moment of sure defeat a sense of total support for the regime remains. To the very last minute anyone suspected of fighting against the cause, or even failing to help put of the evitable, is killed in a wave of street justice. It is the ironic final act of retribution by the Nazi's supporters.
Likewise, the desperate delusions of the few remaining opportunists serve to display how there were those who, while loyal, still felt their own fates weren't sealed so tight. Before his final departure SS leader Heinrich Himmler even states his ambitions, and nearly ridiculous plans for the post-war Germany--one he seemingly thinks he may be a play some role in.
Of course the unanswered question remains to this day why these people held to their believes to this ultimate bitter end, but the film seeks not to resolve these questions but rather display these shocking emotions. Downfall is thus filmed with a range of characters who never question the man who has brought ruin to Germany. Instead, like Frau Goebbels, wife of Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels, they feel a sense in pride in dying with their glorious Fuhrer. Imagining a future for their six children, Frau Goebbels even states that it is impossible in a world without National Socialism.
If Magda Goebbels were a fictional character in a fictional story her method of ensuring her children wouldn't have to deal would their fate would almost seem beyond believability. Instead it is just nearly beyond reason. Likewise, a number of suicide sequences by various party members and SS officers would come off as dark humor if the apparent devotion wasn?t the underlying cause.
The villain of the film is not Adolf Hitler, but nor is he depicted in any form of overtly revisionist light. He is not the tragic anti-hero either. He is a maker of his own destruction and one incapable of accepting his responsibility. The accepted rants and tantrums are present, but the character is played with more depth. There are moments that soften the character, but he remains the tyrant throughout Downfall. He may have lapses with the reality of the situation around him, yet it is those closest to him, which as "true believers," are most delusional.
Downfall also casts new light onto Eva Braun, Hitler's longtime mistress and finally his wife. Typically shown in films as a demure and quiet background fixture, Braun is plotting, controlling and accepting of her eventual fate. She is the truest believer of them all, whether it is rallying the faithful for a night dancing in the ruins of the Chancellery to swing music while the city burns around her, or a final drink with the soldiers before completing her suicide-pack with Hitler.
The real anti-heroes are however are not the party faithful, the likes of Goebbels or Martin Borman, but those like Traudl Junge (Alexandra Maria Lara), Hitler's final stenographer, who even admits that she was warned not to get mixed up with the Nazis. As the center figure in the story, it is hers that is most tragic. Offered the chance for escape she instead stays in Hitler?s web of evil truly believing that there can be no future without him. A brief interview of the real Junge over the end credits offers some, but not a full, explanation of what captivated these people so strongly. It is a question that may never fully be understand but Downfall at least shows the devotion if not the why.
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NYC Film Forum
Old 02-19-2005, 09:25 PM   #13
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Default NYC Film Forum

I too saw the noon showing at New York City's "Film Forum" theater (On West Houston between 6th and 7th Ave, $10 person). The theater was sold out and so was the 3pm showing when I left. It's a very small and old theater with a minute screen by today's standards.

Nonetheless, it was an engrossing film. The events are primarily seen through the secretary's eyes ergo, the film continues half hour after AH does himself in. The acting (particularly Ganz) was top notch and I don't recall seeing a better AH then his rendition. Even Sir Anthony Hopkins (The Bunker 1981) paled in this part compared to Bruno Ganz. As for the person AH, I think it did make the character more human (I don't believe anyone does anyone a favor by dehumanizing such a person in the first place....it's too easy to let ourselves off the hook). I read a review somewhere and will paraphrase a comment, this movie doesn't make Hitler a sympathic character but it makes him three dimensional.

The Reichs Chancellory building looks pretty good and the production team took great effort in reproducing the places (the flak 88 run by HJ was a nice bit). I'm sure others can nitpick and find inaccurate things but all in all I was impressed. Even actors looked a lot like their real counterparts...Himmler, Speer, and Goebbels stand out. Goering was there too but only for a quick shot.

I recommend anyone in the area to go see the movie even in this theater. Also, Bruno Ganz and the director will be in person at the theater on Tuesday (2/22?). I believe they'll be open for questions and discussion after the 6pm showing ends.

If anyone has any questions I'll be glad to answer.
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untergang
Old 02-20-2005, 04:00 AM   #14
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does anybody know when it will be showed in england?chay
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Old 02-20-2005, 04:21 AM   #15
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I saw it in Berlin last year and I agree that despite any inconsistincies, it really captures, the chaos, emotions, and insanity that occured in the Bunker during the last days of the third reich. Bruno Ganz is brillant as Hitler and he was very brave to take this role as he did such a good job in the role that he risks being remembered for this role only... I think it was past due for Germany to make this movie and its a natural progress in the healing and recovery that the people and the country need to get beyond this terrible time in history.
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