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Luft Fotestry Baone - Origami?
Old 01-17-2020, 03:39 PM   #1
fredswiss
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Default Luft Fotestry Baone - Origami?

Is this original or one of the super fakes? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Old 01-17-2020, 04:04 PM   #2
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From the images it appears to be one of the knives with the Ch.A.W. Waffen-Loesche markings that are labeled by some as "Luftwaffe Bayonets". That said, they are not made to be attached rifles - and has been discussed at great length they have no known connection to the WW II era Luftwaffe. FP
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Old 01-17-2020, 04:41 PM   #3
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FP, I am aware of all the points you made. As we both know, dealers generally refer too them as Luftwaffe Forestry Bayonets (Tom Johnson has one on his website using that nomenclature). The only information Iím trying to obtain is whether or not itís original (I.e. TR era).
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Old 01-17-2020, 05:24 PM   #4
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Looks period to me. Very low issue number too, I'd be curious if the same number is on the scabbard above the frog lug.
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:22 AM   #5
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Billy G, I only have these photos at this point. Thanks for your feedback.
Anyone else have an opinion about originality?
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredswiss View Post
FP, I am aware of all the points you made. As we both know, dealers generally refer too them as Luftwaffe Forestry Bayonets (Tom Johnson has one on his website using that nomenclature). The only information I’m trying to obtain is whether or not it’s original (I.e. TR era).
Still a work in progress elsewhere - as far as I know once some early conclusions were found to have no factual basis that raised even more questions. The late Anthony Carter stating that the Arthur Wingen company started in 1935 and was still in business in 1970, and was noted for a specialization in chromium plated(?) cutlery. But that could create a problem, because it was in 1935 that chromium became a restricted material just like copper (the reason for all the TR mid to later period iron and zinc based dagger and sword fittings). And while it’s not directly related, many collectors were fairly recently shocked to find out that a number of the 'Luftwaffe' gravity knives were in fact manufactured postwar. My point here being that some really in-depth work may have to be done to make some accurate assumptions because the old ones are IMO very seriously in question. FP

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Old 01-18-2020, 01:41 PM   #7
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FP, if Iím understanding correctly, you believe these are all postwar.......correct??
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:33 PM   #8
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Any other thoughts on originality please?
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:23 AM   #9
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I dont saw ever any connection with Anton Wingen, his products are mainly trade marked with TM, the Chromolit Besteck Fabrik as is the origin name, has a lower case ch trademark in oval, mostly registered mark, the "chromolit " is legierung of steel in this case inoxidable which means a special name for this products were choosed to make it well known as Anton Wingen was already a well known firm. The program of catalog 1939 dont speaks about any heavy blades?
The H (or other letter) on spine of blade of mentioned pieces is mostly assumed as shortage of maker, the Waffen Loesche Berlin as distributor.
The blade of the mentioned knife is normal KS98 carbon steel so normall oxidable, visible on various pieces that were rusted. The blade was nickeled as by dress KS98.
The brown colored frog that was found on majority of the pieces, could speaks for LW as prior 1940 they used brown color on leather equipment. With numbers up to 400 is this a lower range piece, possible for some Beamten unit? b.r.Andy
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:28 AM   #10
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A very nice original Luftwaffe Forestry Bayonet with what looks like an original to the piece brown luftwaffe frog.

Gary
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:51 AM   #11
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Thanks AndyB and Saufaenger Kid. Your feedback is greatly appreciated.
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:09 AM   #12
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In reality this is not a bayonet, bayonet is attachable on rifle, so here You have a knife or a Faschinenmesser or something else as Seitenwaffe but not a bayonet.
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:44 PM   #13
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AndyB: Yes, I know itís not a bayonet but has been called that for many years by most dealers and collectors. Thanks for your feedback.
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredswiss View Post
FP, if I’m understanding correctly, you believe these are all postwar.......correct??
As I said it's still a work in progress because there so far seems to be no definitive answer to some of the issues that were raised. For example: Arthur Wingen (the son of Anton) worked during and after the TR period. But he used a lower case "ch" on the SA daggers attributed to him, and a 1939 catalog also uses the lower case "ch". Likewise the potential Luftwaffe/Forestry connection appears to have been just some ideas from long ago that have no provable basis when contrasted with TR period documentation. With all this discussion and conjecture seeming to be from some U.S sourced books from about 50 years ago. BTW: I agree with AndyB about the use of what we here on the West Coast call stainless steel. FP
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Old 01-20-2020, 01:00 PM   #15
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Mostly the Ch.A.W. stamps hangs with the serialing and is mostly a unit or order authority designation, as on various samples the serials are of different fonts and position some on ricasso some on guard, i assume the knife was delivered to various places in reality, where was done the serialing. Otherway it would be realised in one manner. Firm Waffen-Loesche Berlin could be hard to work in 50ies in West Berlin, so i tend from design and production details to period 1937-40. b.r.Andy
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