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General Wehrmacht Awards Service Awards ("Flower War", Honor Cross, Long Service Awards, West Wall Medal), Honor Awards and medal/ribbon bars.

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Old 03-20-2017, 11:29 AM   #16
Norm F
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L/11. No flaws (although a different kind of production flaw on the margin to the right of the L/11 mark)
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File Type: jpg 16a.jpg (118.8 KB, 126 views)

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Old 03-20-2017, 11:34 AM   #17
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L/16 in Tombak. No flaws.
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File Type: jpg IMG_7306.jpg (64.9 KB, 125 views)
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:10 PM   #18
Norm F
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Here's mpiering's post-war example from this thread with the typical "Souval flaws".

Interestingly it's virtually identical to the example from the "Meybauer-ish" box, right down to the tiny surface characteristics. Maybe we can cross Meybauer off the list?
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File Type: jpg compare-2.jpg (170.5 KB, 122 views)
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:12 PM   #19
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Souval's 1973 price list. All this could be yours for 20 DM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:59 PM   #20
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Norm:

Thank you for bringing these points to light. I also worked on "his" Luftschutz award
& have added more photographs which I base my feelings on.

These medals started showing-up in the Hamilton & Burlington, Ontario areas
around 1977-1978 period & were quite prevalent right up to the late 80s at a
cost of around $25.00 .. I handled over 25 of these pieces & I've never
forgotten their appearances.


They were "molded" with a 2-pc mold & when taken from the mold they had
a "seam" around all the open areas of the medal. Some forgers/dealers would
water-sand the edges of these pieces but, the majority of them FORGOT to
get rid of the "seams" on the inside-centers of the cutout areas of this medal
which I refer to as the "PIE CUT" area.

Using the photos from the E-Stand I found the "seams" on this medal without
any manipulating of the images but, I did use my 'PAINT' program to close-in
on an area & highlight it with a color.


Look inside these hand-drawn ovals .. Look dead-center in these .. These are the areas
I'm talking about. THIN BLACK LINES in a few cases .. But, they are there & shouldn't be
if this was a "machine-stamped" piece. There is NO reason for a "seam in the center" of
an item if it is "stamped"!
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File Type: jpg Luftschutz Cross 1 .jpg (134.5 KB, 103 views)
File Type: jpg Luftschutz Cross 2 .jpg (89.7 KB, 103 views)
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:09 PM   #21
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There's more ..

The 'white' ovals show a good representation of the "seam"
on these photos. The 'red' shows impurities or screw-ups
of the quality workmanship which would indicate a "mold"
not properly handled & leaving marks behind & poorly formed
edges whereas a "machine-stamping" would leave it crisp on
this pattern of 'stamping'.

Again, look at the 'center' of the white oval & this marked area
is the "center" of the metal form & it shows the "seams" that
should not be there.
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File Type: jpg Luftschutz Cross 3 .jpg (121.1 KB, 101 views)
File Type: jpg Luftschutz Cross 4 .jpg (123.9 KB, 101 views)
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:27 PM   #22
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A few more....

The outer-edge I don't even have to highlight .. Notice that those
'file marks' follow "perpendicular" through that 'center-line' & NOT
delete it when they meet?

That is a "mold" line that has 'picked-up' the characteristics of the
medal's surface! If you "file" an area whatever area that file went
over would deface or eliminate the surface. If that line were to be
part of the "stamping mark" it would have been eliminated each
time the file dragged over it's area. It's a "mold seam"!!

It hasn't got the 'right' or 'proper' medal as well! That is an ODD
spot of this award to show 'rough' or 'beaten-up' areas as well
& that medal is not the proper wartime material.


Ron.
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File Type: jpg Luftschutz Cross 5 .jpg (99.4 KB, 103 views)
File Type: jpg Luftschutz Cross 7 .jpg (45.6 KB, 100 views)
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:49 AM   #23
Antonio Scapini
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Hi Ron, too bad your analysys is not enough to evaluate these medals.
During the TR era we know several pieces were produced with casting process or die forging process.
Same flaws present on LS 1 class are visible also in other badges, for example the Bandenkampf.

Maybe the Buntmetall LS 1 class were produced in one strike (I have my doubts about...) but we don't know it for certain.
Zinc medals I handled and studied, show seam lines here and there, and shows typical signs of the trimming process in the same exact way we know from other badges.

These signs are NEVER present on Souval post-war badges. The S&L post war badges are still a border line field, and maybe only the die flaws could tell something about them, but not the seam line.
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File Type: jpg 3.jpg (119.3 KB, 81 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (171.4 KB, 81 views)
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- THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE



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Old 03-21-2017, 10:55 AM   #24
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And here a specimen without seam lines.
But this is a fake even if it could be sold as original without any problem...
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File Type: jpg S7304317_1.jpg (77.1 KB, 80 views)
File Type: jpg S7304318_1.jpg (144.5 KB, 81 views)
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- THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WEHRMACHT
- DECORAZIONI E ATTESTATI DEL TERZO REICH
- THE MEMEL MEDAL
- THE ITALO-GERMAN MEDAL
- IL TOTENKOPFRING
- THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE


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Old 03-21-2017, 12:28 PM   #25
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A fake I briefly had in my possession last February ..





The ribbon and brooch appear to be real but once I saw it in daylight the rubbed areas show a bright grey metal underneath, there is also a large pair of casting pits between the arms of the swastika and the sewing of the brooch to the ribbon was UV+ so, on the kind advice of Stan who confirmed my fears back it went. This style is currently available on the market as a reproduction.

Ian
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:03 PM   #26
Antonio Scapini
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Your medal is 101% a Souval postwar piece Ian.
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- THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WEHRMACHT
- DECORAZIONI E ATTESTATI DEL TERZO REICH
- THE MEMEL MEDAL
- THE ITALO-GERMAN MEDAL
- IL TOTENKOPFRING
- THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE


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Old 03-21-2017, 02:31 PM   #27
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As I said, I had it briefly ... time to study it and sent it back for a refund. I already have a zinc example and had hoped it might be the Tombak piece I lack but alas.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:38 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Scapini View Post
Your medal is 101% a Souval postwar piece Ian.
Here's a comparison of Ian's former badge ("101% Souval postwar") and the badge from the opening post.

Different photography and different finish (Souval used a variety of finishes), but identical flaw patterns.

The little notches at the 1,2,4,5,7,8,10 and 11 o'clock positions of the the inner margin of the obverse circle look like they were originally caused by a hand-saw during the cutting process of the triangle-shaped internal cutouts. The problem is they are precisely duplicated in every example of this type of Luftschutz Ehrenzeichen, suggesting that these were all made from a casting of an original with precisely these saw marks.
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File Type: jpg compare-2-ribbon.jpg (238.1 KB, 64 views)
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:44 PM   #29
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These U-Boats and Spanish crosses are all Souval post-war produced awards, just to illustrate that a variety of finish was used over the years, so we can't get too hung up on the idea of finish as an indicator for what's Souval and what isn't.
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File Type: jpg DSC00036-(Copy).jpg (234.8 KB, 64 views)
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:58 PM   #30
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two more examples, identical surface flaws.
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File Type: jpg 2.jpg (238.7 KB, 64 views)
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