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Old 05-20-2016, 09:28 AM   #46
me6_130
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Hello FJCM,

They are not tan (Dunkelgelb) but ivory/creamy white (Elfenbein). At least I have observe two different tones, as one is a bit more yellowish. That's the one form posts 30 to 32, that one with the WaA. The other are more or less the same colour, depending on the dirt, oil and light rust.

Almost impossible to date these boxes. They don't have a maker's code and I have only encountered 1 with a WaA out of 10 or 12 I have had on hand. I can only say that Blaugrau boxes seem to be earlier than Elfenbein boxes. I have only come across 1 red box, which I believe was undelivered or very late war.

Carles
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Old 05-20-2016, 11:31 AM   #47
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Your pictures are quite deceiving...They have such a yellowish tinct in my screen I thought they were dunkelgelb instead of elfenbein
Yes, the red should be post Sept 44 and possibly later.
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Old 05-20-2016, 11:37 AM   #48
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I am sorry, I made a mistake. The red box was not a MG Werkzeug but an MG-Zubehör box. I have seen these in Ivory (Elfebein), green, blue (Blaugrau) and this one in red. Photos were provided by seller from Ebay some years ago.

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Old 05-20-2016, 04:47 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FJCM View Post
Your pictures are quite deceiving...They have such a yellowish tinct in my screen I thought they were dunkelgelb instead of elfenbein
Yes, the red should be post Sept 44 and possibly later.
Hello,

Yes, they are yellowish but not tan. Oxidation, rust and oil make them look slightly yellowish. These last pics were shot at night with artificial light. If you would like some better pics just scroll up and you will see them with better light.

Carles
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Old 05-20-2016, 06:59 PM   #50
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Quote:
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Hello,

Yes, they are yellowish but not tan. Oxidation, rust and oil make them look slightly yellowish. These last pics were shot at night with artificial light. If you would like some better pics just scroll up and you will see them with better light.

Carles
My fault. I should have looked for the earlier pictures before speaking.
Anyway Elfenbein looks like a subtle color, and dust and dirt change the shade a lot. I was on the idea it was a pale ivory color with few yellow hue . But I should have considered the option that 70 years after it was applied it could have changed...
By the way, some of the Dunkelgelb variations are quite yellow.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:37 PM   #51
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Gentlemen,

Once finished restoring the boxes, this one is the winner Now it's going up to E-stand.

Carles
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:42 PM   #52
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And these are the fittings complete. All metal and wooden, except for the vertical metal plate in the center, are reproduced (sse posts 36 and 37. Now they look new but with just a bit of oiling and air oxidation the light colour goes a bit yellowish.

Carles
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Old 06-03-2016, 11:13 AM   #53
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According to David Byrden a Tiger tank would have TWO of such MG. Werkzeug boxes Does any one know if this was also the case of PzKpfw III and IV??
The Pz IV lists only one tool & spares box (in a Patronenkasten 41). Regards, R.



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Old 06-05-2016, 10:10 AM   #54
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Thanks Roger for that information. Much interesting indeed. I have a similar list from a Spanish manual but it refers to the E-kasten, not to the MG. Werkzeug nor the MG-Zubehör boxes.

The MG. Werkzeug would be the tanker equivalent of the infantry gunner's tool pouch in a tank, and the MG-Zubehör box contains the bipod and butt stock dismounted from the tanker MG, so these could be mounted again when the tank was abandoned.


Carles
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Old 07-26-2016, 05:29 AM   #55
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Another curiosity...IT IS WaA STAMPED!!!! I had never seen a Werkzeug or Zubehör box WaA stamped. This makes me think it is an early (mid war) item.


Carles


PS: seems WaA 763 can be related to -Meta Metallwerk GmbH, Arnstadt, Thüringen P397.
I have been looking around and IF the producer of this box is in fact Meta Metallwerk GmbH, Arnstadt, Thüringen P397... They would have produced ammo but also other metal boxes, such as the one in the following link.

http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/1798...d-this-please/


It is curious that in general MG Werkzeug and MG-Zubehör boxes don't seem to be maker's stamped nor WaAted. I now have one of each with a WaA.


Carles
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Old 11-28-2016, 01:04 PM   #56
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Dear gents,

I'm sorry to say I'm back with my Diogenes syndrome

Well, since my last post in this thread...I have acquired two more MG Werkzeug boxes, so my total at home has presently gone up to 6 I'm sorry, I can't help it, I see one and I feel like to buy it if it is in a fair condition. I feel the need of restoring them

Now here they are, a classical mid to late war Elfenbein coloured and a very early Blaugrau, also know as panzer grey.

Pics are not mine but sellers'. I wanted to shoot some today but batteries were unloaded...so pulled these out of my files.

Please have a close look at the pics, compare, and you'll see some curiosities there.


Carles
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Old 12-02-2016, 04:04 PM   #57
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I was free of work today, so decided to take a while to study this latest blue box. I had to study the distribution of the prints on the paint, so I could find out what the contents of the box where. I pulled out all my MG Werkzeug boxes and gunner pouches so I could try all the several contents. I've shot a pic for you.

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Old 12-04-2016, 10:01 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger_m View Post
The Pz IV lists only one tool & spares box (in a Patronenkasten 41). Regards, R.



What Pz.IV modification do they mean in this document?
Some of Pz.IVs had no radioman' MG, so they should have only 1 MG Werkzeug...

I believe there should be 1 Werkzeug for 1 MG, but some of them could be "tasche", not box.
For sure, in Panther (A/G) there were 2 boxes (I know exact places). In Pz.IV (G Kubinka) I still know only one place for box... But when I will have enough boxes, I will try to find where install them .
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:07 AM   #59
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Well, that document is not for the "MG Werkzeug" box but rather for the equivalent of the infantry E-box, as you can read "Ergänzungskasten für MG34" (Patr.Kasten 41) As far as I know, Pzkpfw I, II, III and IV only had one MG Werkzueg box for both MG34s on board. I had read that Tigers had two MG Werkzeug boxes but I had no information about them in Panthers, so imagined they only had one also.

Carles
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Old 12-04-2016, 04:20 PM   #60
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How could they work with 2 MG in different places of the tank with only 1 werkzeug in Pz.IV? It is no problem to get to werkzeug of radio operator from the loader place in Pz.III, but impossible in Pz.IV.
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