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Old 02-15-2007, 05:20 PM   #31
jan r
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Hallo Bergführer,

Thanks !

I often use a Armeesattel 25 for riding, still one of the best for Horse and rider.

Jan

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Old 02-15-2007, 08:01 PM   #32
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Grüß Di' Jan R,

Good to know that the Armeesattel 25 is a top notch one. I use to ride alot when I was training for the Modern Pentathlon.

Pferde vor!
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Old 02-16-2007, 12:52 PM   #33
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Hi Jan,

Getting back on the Sanitätskasten issue ...

I have part of the manual you mentioned in a Xerox form.

I have here Der Dienst des deutschen Wehrmachtsapothekers dated 1942 ... 366 pages of medical information

It has a rather detailed list of all possible Sanitätsausrüstungen. On page 257 it says:
Neben den zusammensetzbaren Kastenhälften und den Tragkörben wie bei der Gebirgstruppen-Sanitätsausrüstung finden sich als neue Behältnisse die Einheitskästen der Gebirgs-Sanitätskompanie für Lastkraftwagenverlastung. Dies sind Rolladenkästen von 50 cm Höhe, 75 cm Breite und 42,5 cm Tiefe, die sich zu Schranken zusammensetzen lassen und eine bequeme Entname während der Verlastung ermöglichen.

I also need to find H.Dv. 208/12 .... this seems also to deal with the Gebirgssanitätskasten ...

Still much, much to learn ...
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Old 02-16-2007, 01:35 PM   #34
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Hi Patrick,

Regarding your question on the unidentified Tragesattel ... I do not believe the one you showed and the one in the (nice ) medical picture are the same model. I have found some major differences as can be seen in my comparishment picture.

Could you provide us with some additional pictures of the webbing belts that are woven into the sides of the first Tragesattel you showed? I'm interested in what kind of straps these are.

MfG,
Bart
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Old 02-16-2007, 03:55 PM   #35
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Servus Bart,

Thanks for the comparison picture. It may help if I took some photos of the back end of the sattle since the one posted is the front end. The thrid horizontal slat is folded up in the wartime photo...you can see that it is hinged in my photo.

I'll get some more photos of the Tragesattel 23 posted later. I'm still uploading them to a photo hoster.

As to the Bundeswehr photos that I posted, I beleive they are from the early 1960's. I have some more current BW Mulis and packsattle photos. I took a whole bunch back in 1990 when I went to the 1st Geb.Div.'s 75th anniversary open house in Mittenwald.

Muli vor!
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Old 02-16-2007, 09:33 PM   #36
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Grüß Di' Sani Jan,

Here are some photos of the packsaddle, Geb.San.Kasten, and Gefechtskasten that I took at the Gebirgsjäger museum in Sothofen. They have a #3 and #12 Geb.San.Kasten in Dunkelgelb, as well as a nicely marked Geb.Gef.Kasten.












Muli vor!

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Old 02-17-2007, 04:24 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GJR100 View Post
Hi Jan,

Getting back on the Sanitätskasten issue ...

I have part of the manual you mentioned in a Xerox form.

I have here Der Dienst des deutschen Wehrmachtsapothekers dated 1942 ... 366 pages of medical information

It has a rather detailed list of all possible Sanitätsausrüstungen. On page 257 it says:
Neben den zusammensetzbaren Kastenhälften und den Tragkörben wie bei der Gebirgstruppen-Sanitätsausrüstung finden sich als neue Behältnisse die Einheitskästen der Gebirgs-Sanitätskompanie für Lastkraftwagenverlastung. Dies sind Rolladenkästen von 50 cm Höhe, 75 cm Breite und 42,5 cm Tiefe, die sich zu Schranken zusammensetzen lassen und eine bequeme Entname während der Verlastung ermöglichen.

I also need to find H.Dv. 208/12 .... this seems also to deal with the Gebirgssanitätskasten ...

Still much, much to learn ...
Thanks Bart and Patrick for your help about the Gebirgs-Sanitätskasten and additional pictures.

My knowledge on GJ medical items is very limited and I based my observation on the booklet I already mentionned.

Like I thought it was, you only had 4 boxes which were listed as 'Gebirgs-Sanitätskasten :

1 - Arztliche Gerät / Ampullen
2 - Watte / Tabletten
3- Binden / Flussigkeiten
4 - Mull / Salben

I honestly didn't know that there were more then 4 of these types available. Interesting about the #12 GJ-Sanitätskasten in dunkelgelb.

Like you said Bart, that H.Dv. 208/12 will probably reveal more about these...I'll definatly look out for an example!

There isn't much reference material available so we need to get our information out of wartime manuals and Dv's.

Cheers

Jan
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Old 02-17-2007, 08:12 AM   #38
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Servus Sani Jan und Bergkameraden,

Here is the info on all the different Gebirgs-Sanitäts-Kasten for the different Gebirgs-Sani-Satz. This info and more can be found on Christoph Awender's fantastic web site "World War II Day by Day" (www.wwiidaybyday.com):

Gebirgstruppensanitätsausrüstung Satz i
The Truppenarzt in mountain units is equipped with the Satz i which contains basically the same as a Satz a. It is transported in several Kasten which can be carried by pack animals (each 4 Kasten) or one Kasten per soldier. Parts of the Satz are loaded into wickerbaskets. Five pack animals are necessary to transport the entire Satz i. The Kasten are transported on the sides with stretchers or other equipment on the back (Mittellast).
Pack-animal I: Gefechtskasten (Kasten 1-4); Pack-animal II: Vorratskasten (Kasten 5-8); Pack-animal III: Vorratskasten (9-12); Pack-animal IV: Sauerstoffgeräte, Truppenbesteck as Mittellast; Pack-animal V: wickerbaskets and waterbarrel as Mittellast, reserve-loads.
The Gefechtskasten with the white cross is the same as Satz a.
Half-box 1: Doctors equipment, ampoules, Jodkatgut, linen-thread, rubber stuff, patient-tags, documents
Half-box 2: Standard tablet box, coal, narcotics, degreased and normal cotton wool, bandage material, dressing-packages, wire-ladder-splints.
Half-box 3: Zinc-rubber-plaster, oils, tinctures, powder, burn-compresses, mull, gauze, plaster cast, dressing-packages and clothes.
Half-box 4: Ointments, Iodinemull, Iodine-pads, -clothes, -stripes, combined-press-pieces, immediate dressing-packages, bandage-material, wire-ladder splints
Half-box 5: (Reserve) same as half-box 1; Half-box 6: (Reserve) same as half-box 2; Half-box 7: (Reserve) same as half-box 3; Half-box 8: (Reserve) same as half-box 4
Half-box 9: (Stock) Tutofusin, tetanusserum, reagents for urine tests, rubber-gloves.
Half-box 10: (Stock) mull, gauze, tetanusserum, Losantin, body protection packages, dressing-packages, wire-ladder splints
Half-box 11: normal and degreased cotton wool, tetanusserum, Losantin, body protection packages, dressing-packages, wire-ladder splints
Half-box 12: mull-rolls, -pads, -clothes, -stripes, combined-press-pieces, Losantin, Tetanusserum, dressing-packages, wire-ladder-splints, immediate dressing-packages
Box 13 and 14: Sauerstoffbehandlungsgerät, Truppenbesteck (Mittellast); Baskets: Sanitätstornister-, -backpacks, tool-box, wool-blankets, wire-ladder-splints, water-barrel (Mittellast)
As Reserve-loads so called "Spezialanhängekraxen" with stretchers are available.
Additional equipment to Satz i: Tornisterfiltergerät, Gebirgs-Verwundetenzelt, sleeping-bags for patients
Weights: Traglast I: 98kg, Traglast II: 92kg, Traglast III: 91kg, Traglast IV: 89kg, Traglast V: 78kg, Reserve-Traglast: 96kg, Additional equipment: 127kg
Sanitätsausrüstung Satz k
Satz k of the Gebirgssanitätskompanie consists of Satz k, Ergänzugssatz k and Satz c. This very large number of equipment needs well organized transport with pack animals.
Hauptverbandstaffel: 16 pack-animals; Nachschubstaffel: 9 pack-animals, 1 truck; Talstaffel: 2 trucks
Satz k contains the same material as Satz c with small differences because of the special circumstances in mountaineous regions. The Satz is transported in the same boxes as Satz i.
Pack-animal I: (Gefechtskasten =97kg) Half-boxes 1 and 2: Doctors equipment, ampoules, diphteria- and Tetanus-serum, Jodkatgut, linen-thread, Beckenbänkchen, Standard tablet box, narcotics, bandage material. Half-boxes 3 and 4: Oils, tinctures, powder, burn-compresses, mull- and gauze-stripes, mull-clothes, -stripes, -pads, ointments, immediate dressing-packages, wire-ladder-splints
Pack-animal II: (Vorratskasten =96kg) Half-boxes 5 and 6: Syringes, containers, Jodkatgut, linen-threads, coal, tablets, narcotics, Standard tablet box, cotton-wool, dressing-packages and -clothes. Half-boxes 7 and 8: mull, plaster, gauze, burn-compresses, bandage-material, mull-stripes, -pads, ointments, immediate-dressing-packages.
Pack-animal III: (Operation-equipment = 91kg) Half-boxes 9 and 10: Splints, doctors equipment, ampoules, tablets, tetanusserum, standard tablet box, aluminium- and wire-ladder-splints. Half-boxes 11 and 12: Mull, plaster- and gauze-binds, Oils, Spiritus, Perubalsam, burn-compresses, narcotics, mull-clothes, -stripes, -pads, waterproof bandages, aluminium and wire-ladder splints
Pack-animal IV: (Vorratskasten = 91kg): Half-boxes 13 and 14: Titofusin-ampoules, medical and pharmaceutical-equipment, cotton-wool, coal, Tetanusserum. Half-boxes 15 and 16: Mull, Gauze, body-protection-packages, Tetanusserum, mull-pads, -clothes, -rolls, -stripes, immediate-dressing-packages.
Pack-animal V: (Sauerstoffgeräte = 100kg): Half-boxes 17 and 18: Sauerstoffbehandlungsgerät, stretcher. Mittellast 19: Field-operation-table
Pack-animal VI: (Operation-tools = 72kg): Baskets 20 and 21: Haupt- and Sammelbesteck, doctors-coats, sleeping-bag, rubber-aprons
Pack-animal VII: (Sterilisiergerät = 86kg): Baskets 22 and 23: Field-autoclave, sodium chloride infusion device, Feldtransportschienen, tools, Tornisterfiltergerät
Pack-animal VIII: (Light-equipment = 92kg): Baskets 24 and 25: Accessories for Edisonsammler, Light equipment
Pack-animal IX: (Light-equipment = 80kg): Baskets 26 and 27: Lantern-boxes, Operation-lamp as Mittellast
Pack-animal X: (Stretchers = 94kg): Spezialanhängekraxen 29 and 30: Stretchers, Krankentragenfahrgerät (1wheeled)
Weight: 905kg
Pack-animals XI-XVI carry Gebirgs-Verwundeten- and Verbindezelt, blankets, administrative equipment and engineer equipment. Pack-animals XVII-XXV in the Nachschubstaffel carry Gasschutz-equipment, Heeresatmer, Gas-clothes, blankets, stretchers, alpine-equipment, kitchen euipment and fieldkettle. Pack animals carry 745kg, trucks 2170kg of the supply.
The truck of the Nachschubstaffel transports shuttercupboard, administrative equipment, kitchen equipment, food, drinks, oxygen replacement, filter replacement, alpine equipment, stable equipment, hoofsmith equipment, veterinary equipment, drugs.
The trucks of the Talstaffel transport Satz c with additional equipment and Satz Ergänzugssatz k.
Sanitätsausrüstung Ergänzungssatz k
Ergänzungssatz k is the supply-set for the Hauptverbandstaffel (Satz k) and the Talstaffel (Satz c). Erg.Satz k consists of the usual pack-animal loads and baskets, beside standard shutter-boxes (Rolladenkasten). Satz k is loaded on the "Geräte-Lkw" so that it can be used as distribution station.
Tragtierlast D1: (Medicaments and bandage material) Half-box D1, D2: Narcotics, coal, ointments, mull- and plaster-bandages, waterproof bandages, ampoules, tetanusserum, rubber-stuff, foot-powder
Tragtierlast D2: (Bandage material) Half-box D3, D4: Mull-bandages, waterproof bandages, immediate dressing-packages, zinc-rubber-plaster, idealbandages, plaster-bandages, cotton-wool, wire-ladder-splints
Baskets D3 and D4: (Medicaments and bandage material) Tutofusin-ampoules, mull-bandages, -clothes, cellulose, plaster-bandages, waterproof bandages
Kasten D5 and D6: (Medicaments and oxygen reserves) Narcotics, Tutofusin-ampoules, camomille-extract, coal, kalisoap, oxygen-reserve-case
Kasten D7 and D8: (Administrative equipment)
Kasten D9 and D10: (Administrative equipment)
Kasten D11 and D12: (Filter-reserve and stretcher-accessories) Replacementfilter for the Tornisterfiltergerät, Krankentragenfahrgerät (1wheel)
Kasten D13 and D14: (Ski-sledge) Parts for the Krankentragenschlittengerät and set Ski-Verschraubung
Kasten D15 - D30: (Office-, craft- and light-equipment, reserve garment)
Further material like packsacks with Gebirgs-Verwundeten and Gebirgs-Verbindezelt, blankets, Krankentragenfahrgeräte (1wheel) is stored in the middle of the equipment-truck. Dimensions of the boxes see Gebirgs-San-Kasten and Geb.Truppensanitätsausrüstung Satz i.
Dimensions of the Rolladenkasten: 75x42,5x50 cm, weight Satz k: 1500kg; required transport-space: medium truck



Gebirgssani vor!





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Old 02-17-2007, 08:33 AM   #39
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Grüß Gott Mulischoffeur Bart,

Here are some more detail photos of my Tragsattel 23. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the manual, so I don't know the offical nomenclature for all the parts....maybe you could send me a copy?





















Muli vor!

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Old 02-26-2007, 02:20 PM   #40
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Grüß Di' Mulischoffeurs,

Here are some photos that I took in 1990 at the 75th anniversary of the 1.Geb.Div.





And here of some photos of "Muli" and "Hafi" still being used by the Bundeswehr:







Muli und Kamel vor!
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Old 05-29-2009, 02:30 PM   #41
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is this an original ww2 gebirgsjaeger pack saddle?
thanks matt
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Old 05-29-2009, 02:33 PM   #42
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front
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:15 AM   #43
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Some pieces i found last weekend
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:40 PM   #44
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It amazes me how preserved the wood is, they would make useful parts for a restoration project.
Did you ever pick the horse drawn cart up, that you showed on a previous thread?
matt
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:23 AM   #45
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I remember this great thread !

I would like to re-post here a medical tragekörbe in order to centralise all GJ pack mule equipement...

Animal VI: Baskets 20 and 21: Haupt- and Sammelbesteck, doctors-coats, sleeping-bag, rubber-aprons.
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