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Deschler theory
Old 09-19-2019, 04:01 AM   #1
unimarc
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Default Deschler theory

Deschler theory
I have long wanted to be able to proof the period where the Deschler NON MAGNETIC Version of the EK1 was made .
I think I have now succeeded, after studying my more than 30 Deschler first class crosses very thoroughly.
I have selected these 8 examples to make my point !
IMO the most important feature to look at first is the FRAME . Many say Deschler used the same frame throughout the entire production time !
That I find only partly true !!
As you will see in the pictures below, frames are indeed the same, but there must have been 2 tools made of this same master ponchon (positive master stamp) !
The first cross here, is a “ round 3” .
The frame show quite heavy flaws along the beading on the 12 arm !
Next is “ unmarked” normal core cross .
NO die flaws what so ever (=new tool)!
First one probably cracked and broke
From this point you can detect different flaws grow over time , starting at the 3 o’clock arm vertical beading !
BUT the MOST IMPORTANT one, in this context, is a small flaw on 9 o’clock arm lower curved beading 7-8 notch !
This flaw are only on the late made frames ( where all the other flaws are present too) .
Now the non magnetic cross , despite its “worn” look (caused by the thinner material used in the dies) show ALL FLAWS including this 9 o’clock one.
The last cross is the Deschler “57 version . It has the EXACT same frame / flaws as the non magnetic has .
It’s unmagnetic too !

Conclusion :
The fact that ALL flaws are present and frame are identical to late war Deschlers, the materials are thinner ( cheaper than thicker) and both crosses has another type hardware , including hinge type, than all other Deschlers, lead me to believe, that the non magnetic type is in fact VERY LATE type , and NOT EARLY as to popular belief

I have put the 8 different crosses one by one in the comments for you to see by your self with a comment on the flaws seen
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File Type: jpg image1.jpg (85.8 KB, 430 views)
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Last edited by unimarc; 09-19-2019 at 04:46 AM. Reason: mis spelling
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:03 AM   #2
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Round 3 with severe die flaws to the beading on 12 o´clock arm
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:06 AM   #3
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Flawless unmarked cross !
image3.jpg
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:08 AM   #4
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Small flaw starting to show on 3 o´clock arm vertical beading
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:09 AM   #5
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Flaw on 3 o´clock arm devoloping
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:11 AM   #6
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Full flaw on 3 o´clock arm vertical beading , beginning of flaw on upper curve
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:13 AM   #7
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All flaws present, including new 9 o´clock arm lower curve
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:14 AM   #8
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Non magnetic, all flaws present, thinner ( worn look)
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:15 AM   #9
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´57 version, same frame as non magnetic with swaz !
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Old 09-19-2019, 11:11 AM   #10
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Very interesting thread, especially for me as a 57 collector!!!
The Deschler 57 EK1's are pretty rare, but as you said, there is a strong link between the 57er version, and the late wartime.....
Non magnetic core
Flawed frame
Hardware
It might be helpful to add photo's of the differing hardware on these crosses too!!!
I'll put a link in the 57 section if anyone there wants to have a look!!!
-Nigel
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Old 09-19-2019, 06:58 PM   #11
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Interesting setup .
Only you can tell if any of your EK1 front frames were struck on thicker stamping sheets ? This was done on early Deschler EK2s .
The 2 EK2s I have Deschler used different trimming tools . The next question is : Do any of the front EK1 frames have a removed EK2 lug .
We find this on Juncker EK1s at times .
as .. where an intended EK2 frame was used for an EK1 and the protruding lug was removed .
The EK1 at the end that is non magnetic . ... can you tell what the plated core is made of ?
For me does not fit to be late war ... with a plated core and glossy paint ?

Douglas
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:50 PM   #12
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Great thread. Here’s my non magnetic.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=Deschler
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Old 09-20-2019, 04:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas 5 View Post
Interesting setup .
Only you can tell if any of your EK1 front frames were struck on thicker stamping sheets ? This was done on early Deschler EK2s .
The 2 EK2s I have Deschler used different trimming tools . The next question is : Do any of the front EK1 frames have a removed EK2 lug .
We find this on Juncker EK1s at times .
as .. where an intended EK2 frame was used for an EK1 and the protruding lug was removed .
The EK1 at the end that is non magnetic . ... can you tell what the plated core is made of ?
For me does not fit to be late war ... with a plated core and glossy paint ?

Douglas
Hi Douglas,
I have not studied Deschler EK2 enough to comment so much on them .
I have a few marked, unmarked and “ round 3”s, I will have to study them closer
But that’s besides the point anyway
Deschler May have or may not have used same tools for 1 and 2 class frames, that does not change the fact, that die flaws develop and are kind of fingerprints !
You seem to totally ignore that late “ traditionally” Deschler show ALL the die flaws including the 9 o’clock one and so does both the non magnetic 3 Reich and the ‘57 !!!
We agree that “round3 “ is early !? Then comes unmarked, right !?
The unmarked frame show absolutely no die flaws !!
If we accept die flaws as a sign of evolution/continuity of the tools , Deschler would have to have made ALL THEIR FRAMES in 1939, including those of thinner material, and THEN started assembling crosses using the last ones first, then change to the first for the unmarked and ........ makes no sense at all
Regarding the thinner material used , besides the non magnetic cross is only 16,5 gram( 10 gram less than normal Deschler EK1) the edge measures only 1.23 mm compared to 1.86 mm!!
All my Deschlers seem to have same material thickness and not as the early 2 class , extra thickness !
Regarding the core material on non magnetic , I don’t know . I’m not even sure it’s played !! Could be aluminum alloy ( my guess) or zinc???
But for sure the same as on the ‘57 version .
I’ll take a couple of pics to show the above mentioned
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Old 09-20-2019, 04:44 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddyboots View Post
Great thread. Here’s my non magnetic.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=Deschler
Thanks for the link James .
On yours the 9 o’clock flaw is even more evident than on mine !!!
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:48 AM   #15
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Hi Marc,

I know nothing of the EK1, but I enjoyed this thread.
Really nice to see when ppl but in their own effort and thoughts instead of just parroting
(when I said parroting its meant in general, not specifically to members in this thread )

Beautiful

/Sindri
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