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Spain Crosses opinions please
Old 05-21-2019, 05:44 AM   #1
Patrick W
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Default Spain Crosses opinions please

Hi Guys,

I have these 2 crosses for sale on the estand and a couple of members have asked me to post a thread to vet them.

I am fully confident they are both fine originals as follows-

-Silver with swords in nickle silver by Meybauer- marked L/13 with typical pin and rarer wide catch.

-Bronze with swords I think is a Juncker cross- it has a faint post war added L18 mark

Please be so kind as to post your opinions on these 2!

Many thanks in advance,

Patrick
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"Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:46 AM   #2
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.....
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"Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:44 PM   #3
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Silver looks like a nice, early Meybauer with the LDO stamp instead of the imperial hallmark. Using up old stock perhaps!?
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Old 05-22-2019, 03:47 PM   #4
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thank you! anyone any thoughts on the bronze?
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"Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:53 PM   #5
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Beautiful silver. Fine bronze, but the stamp is probably bogus.
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Stumpf, Werner (15 March 1917 – 13 October 1942)
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:31 PM   #6
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Thanks Brian - certainly a post war stamp as you rightly say. I have 3 others from the same collection all with a fake L/18 stamp also- I will post some pictures tomorrow.

Amazing what collectors and dealers did 40 or 50 years ago!
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:39 PM   #7
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For a collector who wants a real bronze at a cheap price this one is great. Would look on a uniform too.
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Stumpf, Werner (15 March 1917 – 13 October 1942)
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:19 AM   #8
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Interesting to note the striations on the bronze,
I wonder which or if all Juncker share the characteristic

Kind regards Chay
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Old 05-23-2019, 06:51 AM   #9
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I think the later Junckers do. Early CEJ not so much. Buffing I imagine with wire brush.
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Old 05-23-2019, 07:18 AM   #10
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Brian,
It’s maybe possible but a lot of Juncker awards have this circular striations effect from the die!
It’s being identified in the badges sections recently

Kind regards Chay
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:01 AM   #11
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Hi Guys,

The reverse striations on this type of cross are actually part of the reverse die- the marks are the same on all crosses. So the rear die was machine milled and not entirely smooth. It isn't hand finishing.

Chay this is different to the striated badges we are discussing on the Km forum- with those the obverse design was cut using a pantograph machine leaving striations in the obverse which appears to be a uniquely very late war trait- perhaps it was new technology at the time?

These crosses would be early to mid war I would guess so before 1944/45

Here are the other 3 post war stamped ones- all done with the same stamp - a Juncker in bronze with cut swords; a Juncker in silver with cut swords; and a P&L in silver with swords that has had 2 of the eagles neatly replaced with post war Souval ones- this one also has an L/18 stamp to the pin just to add that extra couple of ££
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"Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel
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Old 05-23-2019, 10:27 AM   #12
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silver one was awesome! I came late otherwise... I would not have money for honour clasp that I bought instead
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upbeek View Post
Brian,
It’s maybe possible but a lot of Juncker awards have this circular striations effect from the die!
It’s being identified in the badges sections recently

Kind regards Chay
Disagree. SK Juncker do not all exhibit.
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Stumpf, Werner (15 March 1917 – 13 October 1942)
Frank, Rudolf

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Old 05-23-2019, 03:17 PM   #14
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But no doubt the other thread is correct.
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Stumpf, Werner (15 March 1917 – 13 October 1942)
Frank, Rudolf

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Old 05-23-2019, 03:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian S View Post
Disagree. SK Juncker do not all exhibit.
I agree Brian,
Although I never said all : )))

Kind regards Chay
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