wehrmacht awards


Go Back   Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums > Ken Jasper International Militaria Forums > Imperial Militaria Forum

Imperial Militaria Forum The discussion and study of Imperial German awards and of their Central Powers Allies from the First World War

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Observer WK I
Old 03-05-2020, 06:58 AM   #1
mark99995
Member
 
mark99995 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: germany
Posts: 253
Default Observer WK I

Hello,

original ?

Thanks


Mark

Last edited by Don D.; 03-05-2020 at 07:36 AM.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-05-2020, 07:35 AM   #2
Don D.
Moderator
 
Don D.'s Avatar
 
Don D. is offline
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Walting my way thru pseudo-expert land
Posts: 26,525
Default

You need to upload the pics to the waf server. Use the manage attachments button.
__________________
pseudo-expert
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-05-2020, 07:47 AM   #3
mark99995
Member
 
mark99995 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: germany
Posts: 253
Default

ok, sorry.....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 7.jpg (66.1 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg 6.jpg (67.4 KB, 99 views)
File Type: jpg 5.jpg (80.5 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg 4.jpg (67.4 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg 3.jpg (69.3 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (36.9 KB, 104 views)
File Type: jpg s-l1600.jpg (84.6 KB, 103 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-05-2020, 08:03 AM   #4
DDCOOK
Member
 
DDCOOK's Avatar
 
DDCOOK is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 440
Default

Original - nice badge

Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-05-2020, 08:12 AM   #5
Mike Kenny
Lifetime Member
 
Mike Kenny's Avatar
 
Mike Kenny is offline
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 8,093
Default

It's a bit late now. The auction has ended.

Regards
Mike
__________________
Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

PS: If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-05-2020, 08:25 AM   #6
mark99995
Member
 
mark99995 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: germany
Posts: 253
Default

Right, but I'm pretty sure it's ok ..... but you don't know everything ... hence the idea here ....

Regards


Mark
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-05-2020, 10:09 AM   #7
Ferg 1
Member
 
Ferg 1 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: England
Posts: 1,009
Default

Juncker made issue piece
Ferg
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-05-2020, 11:09 AM   #8
Hagrid
Member
 
Hagrid is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 419
Default

Hi Mark!
Nice Original but a little bit overpriced, imho
Regards
Hagrid
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-05-2020, 11:55 AM   #9
Ferg 1
Member
 
Ferg 1 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: England
Posts: 1,009
Default

Yes ,£588 as a non dealer price was surprising , even the prinzen size pilot badge he had made nearly £200 . Maybe it was the fact it had ‘ Easter 1919 ‘ scratched on the back ,can’t imagine that would rocket the price though .
Ferg
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-05-2020, 02:48 PM   #10
phild
Member
 
phild is offline
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 4,814
Default

It would be nice to know what the different examples of the cliche type badges posted here, on sites and in books were actually made of. Sometimes we are told (may or may not be correct) and sometime we can tell, like when the finish is worn off of a Brass/Tombac base or steel has corroded.


I bring this up because I think that the materials are key to better placing a time frame and indicating private purchase vs award.



The government specifications for what a decoration or badge was to be made of certainly changed for many things during the war (WWI) PLM are a well documented example, but it is for certain that materials were specified under contract and pieces that were government purchased complied with the specs.


Private purchase is a different matter and most anything could be used and was, price probably was more of a driver than quality as probably 90% of the purchasers did not know or care what the award with made of.


I have seen the cliche type badges made of plated brass/tombac, nickel silver (German silver, Alpacca all were an alloy of copper and nickle with a little tin or perhaps zinc) and plated mild steel or iron. I have also seen some like the "square punch" makes in actual silver.


I tend to think that any of this variety made during WWI would have been out of silver, nickle silver (maybe) and steel. I know that after 1914 copper (brass) became more controlled than silver and was removed as a choice for all decorations.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-06-2020, 05:15 AM   #11
Hagrid
Member
 
Hagrid is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 419
Default

Hi!
Nice approach to establish a timeline, but with a lot of maybes involved...
A short summary of my (personal) impressions, derived from books, forums and own speculations:
As to the pilots badge (and mostly the observers as well), early awarded pieces were hollow (with weep-holes), made of silver and came from the Juncker factory. Timeframe could be assumed by the punches (small moon in the early beginnings) and their location (middle first, then sliding down towards the catch). As far as I know Juncker never produced magnetic pieces!
The cliché-type "Deumer"-style (I´m personally not so sure about the maker!) might be awarded pieces too and come in silvered brass or sheet iron, a hint for the date of production is the die-flaw at the crown becoming bigger during the years.
The massive "Deumer" badges (derived from their hardware) are made of tombac, Cupal or zinc - I think them to be 30ies products. These are very heavy, so I assume that the evolution shows in the cut of weight: Massive first, then with an excavated wreath on the back, cupal (or plain aluminium), at the end -due to lack of material - zinc (after 1942).
Square punch and Meybauer are private purchase merchandise and the material is determined by the purse of the customer.
Probably the silver ones were more attractive for the recipients in comparison to the cheap looking awarded pieces....

One excepion would be Square punch: they had cliché-type badges made of silver (at least I have an bavarian one...)

Finally one remark on the regulations and materials requested therein:
Although it mostly states "made of silver" it seemed to be ok to have it just "silver coloured".
I don´t think it´s wise to compare the proceedings and regulations for the making of PLMs (being one of the highest and most esteemed awards) and a pilots badge (a mere sign of qualifying for "air taxi services" for observer officers) The reputation might have changed a bit though with the appearance of "ace flyers" later in the war...

just my 2 cents
Hagrid
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-06-2020, 09:25 PM   #12
phild
Member
 
phild is offline
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 4,814
Default

Hadrid
I truly excellent summation, thanks. I agree with all of your comments except the last bit, but I concede that you may be correct there as well.

My problem is that I know that official award pieces for every award had to conform to set specifications and this included what material(s) the award was made of. I also know that typically (in both world wars) these specs evolved as the demands and material availability changed.

The question is could more than one specification have been in effect at the same time? If so it is for sure that the government paid a good deal more for the 800 silver badges than they did for alpacca badges. Two greatly different qualities at the same time, so what drove who received which quality? Pure luck? We know it was not an officer vs NCO “thing” because all observers were officers and there are many cliche non silver observer badges.

I can see a regulation change at the end of 1917 or early 1918 discontinuing the use of silver in government procurered badges. If so everyone got the same badge from that point on just as with the PLM and all other metal changes like the Pokal.

I understand where you are coming from when you mention the esteem of the badge early on compared to other awards, but you also have to consider in 1913-1915 and onwards the any and all flight training was incredibly expensive and cutting edge. I think that by 1914 the Germans had a similar number of certified military pilots as the US astronauts by the 1980s
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump






vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com