wehrmacht awards


Go Back   Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums > Wehrmacht Uniforms and Equipment > Achtung Panzer! Forum

Achtung Panzer! Forum This forum is designated to discuss the equipment, battles and people of the Panzertruppe.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Would like assistance...Help identifying this German tank group during Ardennes...
Old 04-21-2018, 06:12 PM   #1
Clifforddward
New Member
 
Clifforddward is offline
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Cary, North Carolina USA
Posts: 1
Default Would like assistance...Help identifying this German tank group during Ardennes...

I am hoping someone here may be able to answer a long time question I've been pondering...related to a story from my Dad from his service during the Ardennes.

My Father, Charles H. Ward was a Staff Sargent with the 84th Division, 333rd Infantry, Company L. His encounter with a Tiger tank during the Ardennes Offensive was a family favorite as I was growing up...I have an audio tape that he made at age 65 describing the indecent but unfortunately as a new user I don't yet have permission to post attachments so cannot add it here.

Basically the encounter was in the days after December 25th, 1945 when 333rd, Company L was dug in on the far side of Verdenne which they had retaken from Germans in the wee night hours of Christmas 1944...In the audio Dad states this encounter was the only time during the war he saw a Tiger tank. The story continues as he notes the US anti-tank gunners located in the area of his foxhole hit the tank in it's front armor several times with shells just bouncing off...it was only when the tank retreated and turned sideways that the anti-tank shells hit the side of the tank, knocking it out.

I've always wondered with the limited number of Tiger tanks that participated in the Ardennes if it would be possible to identify the likely German group the tank was a part of. I've read in a couple of sources that the 116th Panzer division was active in the Verdenne area, but I don't know if there were any Tiger tanks that were a part of the 116th.

Perhaps someone on this forum has a history cross reference that would identify what German tank group with Tiger tanks would have likely have been operating in the area? And would it have been a Tiger 2 tank as I've read there where no Tiger 1 tanks used in the Ardennes?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

Best Regards,

Cliff

Cliff Ward

Cary, North Carolina
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-22-2018, 01:54 PM   #2
Gran Sasso
Member
 
Gran Sasso is online now
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: bavaria
Posts: 14,345
Default

TIGER I's took part in BOB - but other tanks were often confused with TIGERs, even the PANTHER wich does not look very simular to it, and the common Mark IV , wich looks more simular.

What IMO is highly unlikely the way the tank retreated - usually it would just roll back the way it came, not offer his weak side and rear armour.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-22-2018, 03:14 PM   #3
Stive
Association Member
 
Stive is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: RUSSIA
Posts: 519
Default

The 6th tank army CC where there were about 50 King tanks the Tiger, and also the 5th tank army of Wehrmacht where there was not a large number of tanks the Tiger 1 participated in Ardennes.
116 tank division incorporated tanks the Panther and T-IV.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-22-2018, 03:30 PM   #4
zundappuk
Member
 
zundappuk's Avatar
 
zundappuk is offline
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Behind the Westwall in the German Eifel, really!
Posts: 146
Default

Almost certainly they were in action against the 116th Panzer Division "Windwund". Therefore the "Tiger" was either a Panzer IV or a Panzer V "Panther".

Tiger seems to have been used to describe almost any German armour in the Bulge.

David
  Reply With Quote

Tigers
Old 04-22-2018, 06:09 PM   #5
TK GUY
Association Member
 
TK GUY is offline
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Rocky Mountains
Posts: 675
Default Tigers

Hi Cliff,

The Tiger II's in the B O B were Corps assets. With the 6th Army was the 501st SS Heavy Tank Battalion from the 1st SS Panzer Corps. These T-2s were attached to the 1st SS Panzer Division and were part of KG Peiper.

With the 5th Army was the 503rd Heavy Tank Battalion (Heer), which operated in the Eifel Region.

There were a limited number of Tiger Is used, but as I recall, they were from a special unit that was supposed to operate small, remotely controlled self propelled explosive vehicles. The remote vehicles did not work well and some of the Tiger Is reverted to their normal fighting role.

That's my memory without dragging my books out.

Paul
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-02-2018, 05:49 PM   #6
FrenchVolunteer
Association Member
 
FrenchVolunteer is online now
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: France
Posts: 4,631
Default

Hi,

yes, Tiger I were used as command vehicles for Borgward IV vehicles.
But no Tiger I was in the area of the 116. Panzer-Division.

As previously stated, the tank was or a Panzer IV, or a Panther.
Here is a short listing about the Panzer-Regiment 16 Gliederung :

http://users.skynet.be/niemacks_plac...iment.htm#org3

16 December , 1944

I. Bataillon with companies 1 to 4 with Panzer V (Panther) : 64 tanks
II. Bataillon with companies 5 and 6 with Panzer IV (Auf. H) : 27 tanks

I will be able to check the various books i have on the Battle of the Bulge at home in a few days.

There is a book of civilian testimonies about the Verdenne battles (in French, first edition 1994, second edition 2011) :

https://www.memory-press.be/index.php/books/show/156

There is also an US report of the 116. Panzer-Division fights by its Kommandeur Siegfried von Waldenburg, the interesting period is starting on page 25 :

https://fr.scribd.com/document/12981...v-Ardennes-37p

Another great review of the fights of the 84th Infantry Division (in French but with maps) :

http://www.batarden.be/site/fr/histo...task=view.html

I'm sure there is more on German books about the unit and the Christmas fights of the Panzer-Regiment 16.

See You

Vince
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump






vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com