wehrmacht awards


Go Back   Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums > Wehrmacht Uniforms and Equipment > Wehrmacht Equipment Forum

Wehrmacht Equipment Forum Equipment and gear of the Wehrmacht era.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

medical gasmaskcanisters: discussion.
Old 02-21-2012, 08:29 AM   #1
Jan B
Lifetime Member
 
Jan B's Avatar
 
Jan B is offline
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: EU
Posts: 7,725
Default medical gasmaskcanisters: discussion.

Dear collector-friends,

With the recent posted example by member Milifan - which I like in terms of application and patina, I always wondered what the use was of adding red-cross to a gasmaskcanister - I do believe that this happened - just try to place it in historical perspective.

If the gasmaskcanister was clearly marked with a red-cross, one whould think that no gasmask would have been found in it. It would have served as a container for medical items ( like MG ammo-cans for example).

On the other hand, I have seen original red-cross marked canisters with their matching gasmask still in it. So I wonder about regulations? Am I wrong stating that regulations were rather severe and had to be followed strictly concerning the use of gasrelated fieldgear? Did the medic kept his gasmask elsewhere in this case?

I don't think that one could just get rid away of a gasmask and change contents? Therefore, I guess that adding a red cross on such canister was done, just for ID purposes if other possibilities were lacking.
The way the canisters were marked was permanent too - It's much easier to put on and off an armband for instance. There were plenty of other meanings to indicate that one was medic (adding red cross to breadbags, armbands, aprons, painted helmets,etc...). What do other members think? As these are considered very rare, it could make sence that they were used in emergancies - when no other ID is possible.

I have seen examples with matching gasmasknbrs / sets that were always together since the end of war. These examples could have been rather used by second line units, like airfield medical personal. Also the 'static' use of canisters is an option. I can well imagine that canister was marked with red cross at verbandplatz or alike.

Another possibility is that these cans were still re-used while in captivity ( like discussion with helmets years ago) - I don't know of any period footage of german POW's who kept their canister - maybe medics were exception?

It is a fact that medical personal was very inventive when it came to re-use general fielgear for own purposes. This would believe that the large choice of specific fieldgear which existed was either not practical or just insufficient available.

Still a lot to clear out and a/m thoughts are just my opinions to get discussion started. This newlyy started thread should hopefully shed new light on this matter. Original considered pieces may be posted here to concentrate research.


I'm not aware of any wartime footage of such canister.

Regards

Jan
__________________
'Arzt und Soldat'
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-21-2012, 09:53 AM   #2
MP44_tom
Member
 
MP44_tom's Avatar
 
MP44_tom is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,474
Default

Indeed a very valid discussion.... I have my own opinion about it, but I better keep it that way

No seriously.... I don't see the need to paint red crossed on Helmets and gasmasks.

Like you said , the red cross was used on ammo cans to indicate there is medical stuff inside....

Now I know a lot of people think that germans would throw away their gasmasks and put all kind of stuff inside their cannister, but I allways have found that a tell tale.... Probably there are some who did that in the end (when running), but certainly not when they were a fighting unit under command of an (non com.) officer. There are very strict instructions about gas masks until the very end of the war and knowing the germans they would strictly follow these orders...

Now, it could be that in some occaisions (on the western front) medics thought it would be in their benefit when they easily could be identified as medical personnel, and therefore it could of course be possible that red crosses were painted on , but I still have my doubts....

Like i said, just my .02 cents and of course just an opinion....

Tom
www.mp44.nl
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-22-2012, 04:17 AM   #3
Jan B
Lifetime Member
 
Jan B's Avatar
 
Jan B is offline
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: EU
Posts: 7,725
Default

Concerning Helmet ID, several wartime footage and original examples are around that prove the use of them - so this is no longer a matter of believers and non-believers. Proves are made that they were used in full combat circumstances too.

Now back to gasmaskcanisters please
__________________
'Arzt und Soldat'
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-22-2012, 06:07 AM   #4
Jan B
Lifetime Member
 
Jan B's Avatar
 
Jan B is offline
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: EU
Posts: 7,725
Default

I'll start of with one which was posted before and is almost relic-condition. It came with a large konvolut all related to a medic. The grouping came straight from cellar - all documents in it were dated pre-45.

The seller (=founder) was not into militaria and didn't even mention the red-cross on the can. He just stated their was a metal container with the grouping.

Based on these facts and the condition of the red cross itself, I strongly believe that this can is NOT touched by a faker.

So I can only conclude that it was done:
- wartime - but rather used as a container in a truppenverbandplatz or alike. I doubt it was - straps were gone too - carried by a fieldmedic.
- done in captivity.
- Postwar altered to serve as first-aid box. People used what they could have and the idea of a first-aid box in a shed or private-working place makes sences to me...

Here together with an untouched cap from this grouping...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Picture 122.jpg (79.5 KB, 215 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 124.jpg (57.8 KB, 213 views)
__________________
'Arzt und Soldat'
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-22-2012, 06:07 AM   #5
Jan B
Lifetime Member
 
Jan B's Avatar
 
Jan B is offline
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: EU
Posts: 7,725
Default

3
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Picture 135.jpg (215.6 KB, 216 views)
__________________
'Arzt und Soldat'
  Reply With Quote

bumping this old thread back up
Old 11-18-2019, 05:59 AM   #6
Jan B
Lifetime Member
 
Jan B's Avatar
 
Jan B is offline
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: EU
Posts: 7,725
Default bumping this old thread back up

Damned, this thread is almost 8 years old .


Discussed this topic with a local collector recently so I thought it could be of use bumping this thread back up to get more experiences/opinions.


Best regards,


Jan B.
__________________
'Arzt und Soldat'
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-19-2019, 10:07 AM   #7
MP44_tom
Member
 
MP44_tom's Avatar
 
MP44_tom is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,474
Default



How time flies when your having fun......


Btw, maybe we are the only ones interested in this topic Jan....

Cheers
Tom
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-19-2019, 05:57 PM   #8
hagen.191
Member
 
hagen.191's Avatar
 
hagen.191 is online now
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 1,621
Default

Nice Einheitsfarbe! Really love the condition! But red cross paint is a post war Job IMO. Bright colours and paint traces above the rust...for me an early post war reissued ambulance can or sth like that.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-19-2019, 06:46 PM   #9
Jan B
Lifetime Member
 
Jan B's Avatar
 
Jan B is offline
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: EU
Posts: 7,725
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hagen.191 View Post
Nice Einheitsfarbe! Really love the condition! But red cross paint is a post war Job IMO. Bright colours and paint traces above the rust...for me an early post war reissued ambulance can or sth like that.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
Thanks for your input. The can was discussed overhere in the past, see link
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=495378

Regards,

Jan B.
__________________
'Arzt und Soldat'
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump






vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com