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Bavarian 5 place medal bar
Old 01-12-2019, 04:39 AM   #1
Yubari
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Default Bavarian 5 place medal bar

I like it!
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File Type: jpg Unbenannt-Scannen-02.jpg (132.6 KB, 208 views)
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Last edited by Antonio Scapini; 01-12-2019 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:20 AM   #2
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Hi,

this mountig manner looks Austrian.

regards
Tomasz
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:30 AM   #3
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Ahh I ment Austrian.... thank you for correcting!!!

What do you think about the medal bar itself, please
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:01 AM   #4
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Austrian collectors become very irritated when people call bars like yours "Austrian". Your bar is considered to be a post-war assembled fantasie product and here is why:

The clasp used for your bar was created exclusively (as standard equipment) for the Austrian Bundesheer of the Second Republik and used from 1955 onward. The Bundesheer eliminated the use of traditional suspension loops sewn onto the tunics to hang medals. The type of metall clasp used on your bar did not exist before 1955!

The Hungarian People's Army created a similar but very cheaply made clasp when the Hungarians eliminated their sewn-on suspension loops after the war.

The guy who created this bar did not overlap the ribbons in the korrect manner. Austrian ribbons are overlapped right over left, not left over right.

Austrians serving in the Wehrmacht after 1938 wore medal bars created in the traditional German style. Trefold ribbons for these awards during the war years were created for Hungarian, Croatian, and Bulgarian soldiers... not for Austrian-Germans.

Examples of pre-assembled, pre-1938, improvised Austrian trefold ribbons (I supposed you could call them medal bars in the broadest sense) do exist ! You can see them assembled in strange, oftentimes home-made ways. Sometimes they utilized MODIFIED German medal-bar or ribbon-bar hardware. If they are authentic and attributable, they are very desirable and collectible.

Your two Anschluss ribbons look like pre-1945 pieces. The other three look like post 1945 ribbons.

But whatever you do... don't ever try to tell an experienced Austrian collector that this is an Austrian bar, unless it has Bundesheer approved awards on it, otherwise you will get a long lecture.




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Old 01-12-2019, 12:24 PM   #5
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thank you for your educative reply! I see ribbons are folded really vice versa now!

I was so much hoping it has a chance!
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:31 PM   #6
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triad08,
You've supplied some very good information. I've learned something.

Chet
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:55 PM   #7
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Yes, Triad08 perfectly explained about the "Austrian" bars, and furthermore the flower war medals are fakes.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triad08 View Post
/.../ Austrian ribbons are overlapped right over left, not left over right. /.../
Yeah, my first impression was, that something is wrong here. Now I know, what
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:35 AM   #9
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Obviously fake 13th March & 1st October medals … also what scenario allowed the wearing of the KVKII both with and without swords ?

Ian
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Hulley View Post
...also what scenario allowed the wearing of the KVKII both with and without swords ?

Ian
+1

Didn't the awarding of the swords supplant the other?

James
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Hulley View Post
... also what scenario allowed the wearing of the KVKII both with and without swords ?

Ian
Actually, the two KVK's being worn together would be totally consistent with the way real Austrians liked to wear their medals! This just is SO VERY "AUSTRIAN" !!

Austrians loved to wear every single award they ever received... without regard for a higher grade replacing it (and without much regard for regulations.) That is why you see many Austrians wearing their Bronze, Silver, and Large-Silver Bravery Medals all at the same time. The same goes for the Bronze and Silver Signum Laudis, etc. etc.

Hungarians during the Horthy era continued this same practice. It is not uncommon to see a higher ranking Hungarian officer wearing 4 Signum Laudis medals (on both war and peacetime ribbons) or 3 and 4 grades of the Order of Merit.

(Of course during the 7-8 years that Austrians were Aryan-Supermen, they actually had to pay attention to Wehrmacht regulations as it applied to German awards.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevrin View Post
+1

Didn't the awarding of the swords supplant the other?

James
With regard to the above medal bar, this consideration would be very low on the list. The fact that the bar is a fantasie product for the reasons outlined in Post Nr 4 above would trumpp the duplicate KVK2 problem.

(Notice my new spelling of the word "trumpp".)

Last edited by triad08; 01-13-2019 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:40 AM   #12
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I see my comment is not here due to crash of site.

You could have IMO two KVK on one medal bar - even on ribbon bar you can find both. I believe only KVK medal would be replaced by KVK2 with or without sword!
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevrin View Post
+1

Didn't the awarding of the swords supplant the other?

James
I won't tread on our Austrian friends toes with their specific knowledge but I'll tell you this for free … The only 3 ribbon bars I have seen with more than a single KVKII have been fake, all German style, standard size but all bad.

Ian
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Hulley View Post
I won't tread on our Austrian friends toes with their specific knowledge but I'll tell you this for free … The only 3 ribbon bars I have seen with more than a single KVKII have been fake, all German style, standard size but all bad.

Ian
I am in full agreement here.

Even though it would have KILLED an Austrian not to be able to wear a medal he was awarded (which is what he was accustomed to doing in the pre-Anschluss days) German regs had to be followed as it applied to German awards... especially the 3rd Reich awards.
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:59 PM   #15
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An example of a KVK and a KVM on a medal bar.

Gary B
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