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Bundesrepublik Deutschland, 1949-Present From West Germany through to the modern reunified German Republic.

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Old 04-19-2011, 08:02 AM   #16
Gordon Craig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemm View Post
Now that leads me to another question. Guys on WW2 german tunics they sewed loops for all their awards although I do have one tunic that a ribbon bar was worn pinned through the uniform but in the main they had loops. My artillery Hauptmann's tunic just has the ribbon bar pinned through the cloth and the badge pinned into the cloth. Is this the norm. I have seen on a jacket made 1974 a set of loops for ribbon bar but that was the only one. Has the practice of loops faded out?

Phil
Phil,

There were two types of ribbon bars. The first were pin on like the WWII type. For those the wearer had thread loops sewn on the uniform as was done in WWII. Later ribbon bars were of the clutch back pin type and no thread loops were necessary for this type. I have tunics where the badges were pinned on through the cloth but this is probably not correct. No doubt it was done sometimes but we can never be sure if the artifacts were pinned on by the previous wearer or subsequently by another owner of the uniform.

Regards,

Gordon

Last edited by Gordon Craig; 04-27-2011 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:05 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by PASSAUER8884 View Post
Gordon, yeah I had to overcome the temptaion to "beef up" the ribbon bar, but when I got the tunic it clearly had the "pinch mark"/ pin holes for a single place ribbon bar, and the one that is on there was in the pocket. I have seen a few pics of senior officers with one or two place bars (or even none at all....)
I have no objection to the wearing of one or two place ribbon bars but I have never seen an officer wearing this high an award by it self. If you still have the pictures you are referring to I would appreciate seeing them on the forum.

Regards,

Gordon
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:33 AM   #18
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I'll see if I can find the one I have, its in a Reservist magazine from like 2004-2005 and there are a group of officers at a table and one guy has just the cross in gold and thats it.

I do have a 3 place bar with the Ehrenkreutz in Gold/DSB in silver and DLRG in silver, maybe I'll stick that one on it, more "bling"
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:23 AM   #19
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Hi,

"more "bling""

I wore my jackets without "bling bling". And I'm not a Hanseat!
Only my name plate and the "internes Verbandsabzeichen".

The bar in the middle is from the "Deutsche Verkehrswacht":

http://users.sgh-net.de/~arlt/ehrenz...stung-dvw.html

http://www.ordenskunde.info/dtDVW.htm


Quote:
... its in a Reservist magazine from like 2004-2005 and there are a group of officers at a table and one guy has just the cross in gold and thats it.
Then it was a Reservist with a very short time of active service, but he was presumably a high ranked civilian with merits for the Bw.
Are you sure with Gold, not Bronze?

Uwe
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:40 AM   #20
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It could be bronze... The officer in the pic is definately at least a Major, I dont recall what Verbandsabzeichen he has but you can see it. I'll have to dig the magazine out this evening.

I guess I'll just take the ribbon off for now
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:53 AM   #21
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Personally my collection mostly deals with enlisted personnel and NCOs but I like the officer pieces too
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedytop View Post
Hi,

"more "bling""

I wore my jackets without "bling bling". And I'm not a Hanseat!
Only my name plate and the "internes Verbandsabzeichen".

The bar in the middle is from the "Deutsche Verkehrswacht":

http://users.sgh-net.de/~arlt/ehrenz...stung-dvw.html

http://www.ordenskunde.info/dtDVW.htm




Then it was a Reservist with a very short time of active service, but he was presumably a high ranked civilian with merits for the Bw.
Are you sure with Gold, not Bronze?

Uwe
Uwe,

Thanks for the info in the middle award. Iknew that I had seen it before but couldn't remember where.

Regards,

Gordon
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:04 PM   #23
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Good thread!

Here's some of my less usual stuff.

First up is a high quality custom jacket, complete with button on rank (missing arm shield):





Next is a 1959 custom summer jacket in the same pattern as Sandfarbe, but gray in color:





1950s NCO Affenjacke:





1962 Sandfarbe jacket:



Lastly, a shot of a couple of shoulders/arms of other jackets:



Steve
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:13 PM   #24
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Steve...nice jackets and again I like the theme of the older style jackets but then I am a sucker for the GBJ can you show me that one you have tucked in with the all the others. Again love the 57 medal bar but I see what you mean about the bling. I have two more jackets in the mail so to speak and they are plain. When they arrive I will post them and one is a GBJ skibluse Jens offered me complete with cap.

Thanks for the info regarding the middle medal on the ribbon bar but sorry guys can I have a brief translation in English (I dont read German)


Phil
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:08 PM   #25
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Phil,

Here is a bablefish translation which will give you the gist of what was said. The pictures don't come through in a translation. I'll have to do this up, and the other reference Uwe posted, in a more readable English version.

Regards,

Gordon

THW Helfervereinigung Ronnenberg registered association.

Volume buckle to the “decoration of the German road-safety-promoting organization”

Article no.DesignationIllustration114Decoration of the German road-safety-promoting organization “Silver”
(further references)
115Decoration of the German road-safety-promoting organization “Gold”
(further references)
Further references find you in the following explanations as well as the charter of foundation.
Honor of proven motorists


Target group
All motorists with at least ten-year exemplary travel time.
Goals and conversion
The German road-safety-promoting organization donated an honor for proven motorists in the year 1952, it today in the stages
  • Bronze for 10 years travel time
  • Silver for 20 years travel time
  • Silver with oak ring for 25 years travel time
  • Gold for 30 years travel time
  • Gold with oak ring for 40 years travel time and
  • Golden laurel leaf for 50 years travel time
gives.
The honor as proven motorists has a Doppelnatur: On the one hand it serves the acknowledgment for exemplary behavior in the traffic in the past - the honor period; at the same time it takes the honours in addition, for the future into the responsibility. With the acceptance the motorist, “also further by prudent, commits himself to the honor considerationful and helpful behavior in the traffic other road users model to be”.

568Bronze for 10 years travel time without illustration569Silver for 20 years travel timewithout illustration570Silver with oak ring for 25 years travel time without illustration571Gold for 30 years travel time without illustration572Gold with oak ring for 40 years travel timewithout illustration573Golden laurel leaf for 50 years
Further references to the honor “proven motorist”
Honor “motorist proof of worth badge”

The motorist proof of worth badge was donated to 23.10.1943 and in the stages bronze, silver and gold for earned motorists of the armed forces was lent.
Article no.DesignationIllustration391-brForce driving proof of worth badge bronze391-siForce driving proof of worth badge silverwithout illustration391-goForce driving proof of worth badge goldwithout illustration

Honor of the German road-safety-promoting organization (“proven motorist”)

(Excerpt from the manual of the German road-safety-promoting organization)
General references

So some negligent pedestrian, who wanted to cross the lane in thoughts, owed its life of the presence of mind of a driver” notes those traffic control room 1933. And it continues: The “road-safety-promoting organization Leipzig e. V decided from there to consider all professional drivers, who exercise their heavy occupation at least 15 years long without objection, with the armlet “acknowledgment in the driving service”.
Which demonstrated the road-safety-promoting organization Leipzig at that time, is today an important component above all the work more locally was awake: the honor as proven motorists.
1952 donated the federal road-safety-promoting organization an honor for “normal” motorists, it today in the stages
  • Bronze for 10 years travel time
  • Silver for 20 years travel time
  • Silver with oak ring for 25 years travel time
  • Gold for 30 years travel time
  • Gold with oak ring for 40 years travel time and
  • Golden laurel leaf for 50 years travel time
gives.
The DVW transferred are awake the honor. These have from the granted possibility of delegating the honor further to their local are awake constantly made use.
To the honour a request (“data”), an instruction card and only for the internal use are awake certain guidelines belong. During the honour become
  • a document
  • a sticking on needle
  • a document of identification and
  • a licence
handed over, that to (liable to pay the costs) the purchase of vehicle plaques (metal) entitled.
Request

The request contains the explanation of the applicant apart from personal data, to the driving licence and to the desired honor stage in the questionable period regularly a motor vehicle to have led. Furthermore the applicant must express itself to judicial and order-official measures.
He had to explain its agreement until 1998 that the road-safety-promoting organization tests its data by an inquiry at the force trip Federal Office (KBA) - which happened regularly - and that information from the traffic central register were given to the road-safety-promoting organization. Since 1 January 1999 - with the KBA information concerned must catch up it and submit it the road-safety-promoting organization as well as the honor request. The information its getting with the KBA is free of charge, required however a certified signature or an authentication of the photocopy of the identity card or passport.
Finally it must recognize the conditions of the instruction card and commit itself, document, sticking on needle, to return to plaque and document of identification if it the conditions of the honor no longer fulfilled, if thus future events enter, which to the honor set against.
Here it becomes clear that the honor has as proven motorists a Doppelnatur: it is once acknowledgment for exemplary behavior in the traffic for a certain past time, evenly the honor period, by the road-safety-promoting organization. It is however at the same time also an obligation of the honour for the future: With the acceptance the motorist, “also further by prudent, commits himself to the honor considerationful and helpful behavior in the traffic other road users model to be” (instruction card).

The double character of the honor comes again in the regulation to the expression, which must obligate according to itself the applicant to return the honor if in the future by a court or an administrative authority the driving licence is withdrawed from it or imposed against it a driving ban. In special cases the national road-safety-promoting organization knows - with Germans with domicile abroad the DVW - which carriers of the honor on its request relieve of this obligation.
Other

The honor in the following stages is lent to occupation motorists and Straßenbahnführern:
  • Bronze for 5 years travel time
  • Silver for 10 years travel time
  • Gold for 20 years travel time
  • Gold with oak ring for 30 years travel time.
It is valid essentially generally for honor for proven motorists the saying. The term of the “occupation motorist” led in the past to interpretation difficulties. Today the guidelines define: “Occupation motorist is a person, whose occupation is leading motor vehicles”. For the treatment the road-safety-promoting organization is responsible, within whose range of the employers of the occupation motorist or Straßenbahnführers has its seat; if the enterprise has its seat abroad, the DVW is responsible. , An occupation proof of the employer must be attached to the request, which gives an upper view over the activity of the applicant during the period which is applicable for the honor. The honor is to then take place under engagement of the enterprise, to which the honour belongs.
Background - information

Decoration of the German road-safety-promoting organization

With charter of foundation of 07.11.1957 by the president at that time of the federal road-safety-promoting organization Professor Dr. Walter lime trees the decoration of the federal road-safety-promoting organization was donated. In the “decree over the permission of the foundation and award of medals and decorations” and over the acknowledgment of decorations” of 04.07.1958 (federal law gazette part of 1, P. 422) the Federal President at that time Professor Dr. Theodor Heuss the decoration of the federal road-safety-promoting organization in two classes approved.
Charter of foundation of the decoration of the German road-safety-promoting organization from 7 November 1957 in the version from 1 1 July 1968
Article 1
The German road-safety-promoting organization donates the decoration of the German road-safety-promoting organization for the acknowledgment of earnings/services around security in the traffic with permission of the Mr. Federal President.
Article 2
(1) the decoration in two classes is lent.
(2) the decoration consists of a white enamel cross with presented road-safety-promoting organization symbol - green cross in the green ring with the transcription “security in the traffic”. The back carries the inscription “for promotion of security in the traffic - German road-safety-promoting organization -”. The white enamel cross and the road-safety-promoting organization symbol, are in the first class also gold, in the second class with silver set in.
(3) the decoration in both classes at a green volume with white edge strip on the left breast pocket is carried. Women carry the decoration at a gleichfarbenen loop.
Article 3
The decoration is lent by the president of the German road-safety-promoting organization.
Article 4
(1) the decoration can to natural persons be lent, itself by particularly successful activity or by outstanding Einzelhandlungen around the elevation of the security in the traffic, which preventing of traffic accidents, which made decrease earned by traffic accident sequences, and around which other tasks and goals of the road-safety-promoting organization work.
(2) the Beliehenen receive a charter with the signature of the president of the German road-safety-promoting organization.
(3) the decoration changes into the property of the Beliehenen.
Article 5
If the owner of a decoration shows itself by its behavior, in particular by committing a entehrenden criminal offence of the honor unworthily, then by resolution of the presidency of the German road-safety-promoting organization the decoration can be withdrawed from him; the concerning is to be heard before the extraction. The resolution is to be communicated to it in writing to justify and provide with a caution.
Article 6
The president of the German road-safety-promoting organization issues the implementing regulations after hearing of the presidency.
Bonn, 1 1 July 1968
Prince of Hessen
Explanations

After the federal road-safety-promoting organization had renamed itself 1967 into German road-safety-promoting organization, the Federal President Dr. Heinrich Luebke approved to 10.07.1968 the change of the designation (now “decorations of the Germans Verkehrswacht') and the form of the honor (federal law gazette part of 1, P. 768 with correction federal law gazette 1969 part of 1, S.1 1), under that 11.07.1968 the charter of foundation was again seized by the president of the DVW Richard prince of Hessen.
The decoration of the German road-safety-promoting organization is thereby part of the national medal nature of the Federal Republic of Germany; the legal basis is the law over titles, medals and decorations of 26.07.1957 (federal law gazette part of 1 P. 844). It is valid by the way only for the medal nature of the federation and lets the possibility of the countries of creating own national medals and decorations untouched.
Source: Manual of the German road-safety-promoting organization
If you should not find the volume buckle wished by you in our program, we would be pleased about your (email) report to info@bandschnallen.de much. We will then gladly strive to procure for you the desired volume buckle, as far as this is officially available!
Order references and on-line order service
General explanations concerning the individual decorations/volume buckles
You find our entire delivery program in the catalog
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:24 PM   #26
Gordon Craig
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Phil,

Since you have said your interest in uniforms from 1970 on here are pictures of a couplle of mine. First up is a panzer tunic for a Hauptgefreiter u. A. from the 12th Panzer Division, Panzer Battalion 344.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCF6876.jpg (130.4 KB, 156 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF6878.jpg (177.7 KB, 156 views)

Last edited by Gordon Craig; 04-20-2011 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:26 PM   #27
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This is a good illustration of the quality of the enlisted man's divisional arm badge and the breast hanger for the panzer battalion.
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File Type: jpg DSCF6879.jpg (114.8 KB, 158 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF6877.jpg (98.9 KB, 157 views)
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:39 PM   #28
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You mentioned earlier that you were not interested in collecting offocers uniforms. I think you are ruling out some very interesting uniforms here and suggest you rethink this decision. The next uniform was selected to illustrate my point. It is a later, tailor man officers jacket. The quality of the material is much better and considerably lighter in colour which normal.
The tunic is for a Captian of Reserves in Army Aviation (Heeresflieger). Army Aviation soldiers wore the same cuffband as the airforce but in dark grey instead of blue. Their arm of service colour is grey. He wears the arm badge of the 6th Panzer Grenadier Division Head Quarters. He wears embroidered BW wings and metal U.S. Air Force wings. All flying training, with the possible exception of upgrading from one aircraft to another, is given in the U.S.
There are indications that at some time something was pinned through the material, above the left pocket, of both of these tunics but there is no way of determining what that was so I have not attached anything there.

Regards,

Gordon
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File Type: jpg DSCF6891.jpg (142.5 KB, 158 views)
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:40 PM   #29
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Close up of the arm badge, sorry for the blurry picture, and the cuffband.
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File Type: jpg DSCF6888.jpg (184.7 KB, 159 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF6885.jpg (150.7 KB, 161 views)
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:41 PM   #30
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Close up of the flight wings.
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