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Info needed on ghetto armband - correct forum?
Old 09-08-2019, 07:24 PM   #1
Dave Baird
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Default Info needed on ghetto armband - correct forum?

Hi friends. I'm still not able to post attachments. But, I have found a ghetto worker's armband but don't know if it is real. Can I ask anyone to email me at mrp38@zoominternet.net for me to send them a picture to post for authentication please? I've never seen one of these before in over 20 years. Thank you, Dave
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:34 AM   #2
FrenchVolunteer
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Hi,

here is the picture of Dave's armband.

I found an interesting topic on Warrelics from 2013 that seemed to nail this one...

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/non-co...tatten-325332/

The SS / SD stamp is the dead giveaway.

Many variations of this armband exist on the net.

See You

Vince
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:55 AM   #3
TP Alexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchVolunteer View Post
Hi,

here is the picture of Dave's armband.

I found an interesting topic on Warrelics from 2013 that seemed to nail this one...

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/non-co...tatten-325332/

The SS / SD stamp is the dead giveaway.

Many variations of this armband exist on the net.

See You

Vince
A comment from the Warrelics thread:

"With regards to any of these Holocaust items, reason must prevail. If you were an individual associated with aiding the Holocasut, you would be a total idiot to keep an item like this for a souvenir of your time tormenting people. If you were a victim, you would want to rid yourself of any Holocaust related item forced on you. I do not trust any of this stuff. For me, it is all fantasy junk."

And yet, people still held on to certain items, people still took pictures of things that should never have been seen in a photograph.

My question would be, is there anything from that period where Jewish Ghetto Police items still exist and can we see them or give me a link to items that are verifiably original???

Thanx,
Tim

Last edited by TP Alexander; 09-09-2019 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:08 AM   #4
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Thank you for your help, Vince! I sincerely appreciate it. It is important to remember the evil that prevailed during that one period in history (there's been more than one!), so I enjoy keeping a few artifacts to help prove the truth. Tim in reference to your inquiry....I remember decades ago attending one of local large shows and watching an older, short man in a suit carefully examining every item displayed on tables with WWII items and buying the holocost-looking stuff. I don't know who he was, but I believe some of the original items are being kept for history by some, at least I hope it is so.
Dave
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:25 AM   #5
ROBB
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Every Ghetto armband I have ever seen has been fantasy rubbish. If you see anymore just assume they are fantasy items. Rob
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Old 09-09-2019, 04:06 PM   #6
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Hi,

Since i posted Dave’s picture, i’m working on a study of the dozen of similar fake armbands i found on the internet. I will post it in the next hours.

The web is flooded for decades by thousand of fake Jewish/Ghetto armbands, hundreds of variations exist. And unfortunately many are listed in “official” websites.

I was in contact in the past with an official person of the Yad Vashem, and she told me that there was talks about presenting/debunking fakes on their website.
But I suspect that it would take a lot of work, and it would help fakers to propose upgraded fakes.

Now to reply to TP Alexander, the problem is that armbands are easy to fake and to pass them to official museums to “authenticate” them. It is a well known trick by fakers (remember the “Majestic 12” scam ?). Hundred of original deportee uniforms exist, and I suspect that the Auschwitz museum, the Mémorial de la Shoah, the Yad Vashem and the USHMM have some armbands… and that some may be originals.

See You

Vince
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Old 09-09-2019, 04:15 PM   #7
Mr.Jerry D
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There is a good book called "counterfeiting the holocaust" that is about the volume of reproduction items that had flooded the market (we saw a large influx in the 80/90s when Eastern Europe opened up.) but he does show some known originals in there as well.
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Old 09-09-2019, 04:35 PM   #8
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I echo Jerry's post on holocaust items.

Before you spend a dollar on such items, I recommend getting a copy of the book. Even if there are a few errors in the book (IMHO, no book, website or forum is without errors), it is still an invaluable eye opening reference.

"Counterfeiting the Holocaust, A Historical and Archival Examination of Holocaust Artifacts" by Alec S. Tulkoff. Published by Schiffer in 2000.
iSBN: 0 - 7643 - 1109 - 3.

It is an 8 1/2" x 11" 88 page paperback.

Anyone remember the guy from central Illinois who made phony concentration camp items like torture benches, restraints, whips, etc., aged them out behind the barn for a couple of years and sold them for big bucks at Midwest gun shows and on auctions? He was active mostly in the 1980's and early 90's.

Alen
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:16 AM   #9
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Hi,

Before anything, it should be pointed out that the vast majority of the remaining (Polish) Jewish Ghettos or Jewish workers had been closed/killed before the end of 1943 (cf "Aktion Erntefest").
Historically speaking, to find such remaining armbands in late 1944 or in 1945 is nonsense.
This single fact should be enough to dismiss most armbands proposed on the market (or in museums).

so i took a few hours to find and study the two dozen of similar fake armbands i was able to find on the net.
Spoiler alert : all are fakes (or so).

In the next posts i will provide the result of my study.

To start with, two types of "Ghetto-Werkstätten" armbands exist :
- printed models,
- embroidered models.


For each category, you can find :
- armbands presented in "official" sources,
- armbands proposed and sold on auctions (the vast majority),
- armbands proposed and sold as reproductions.


1) PRINTED MODELS

I found a total of 11 similar printed armbands.

A) Wide text + "GW"

Those ones are similar to the armband of Dave. I found 5 of them.
All are clearly made by the same faker.
The text "Ghetto-Werkstätten" is printed with spaces between letters and is underlined in red. The "GW" initials are in the correct order, but are not easy to decypher.
Most armbands have additional stamps and numbering :

- Simpson Ltd : "washed" armband (no apparent stamp)
- Townsend Auction Galleries : "185" single stamped, "Arbeitsamt" stamp
- Warrelics : "0467" stamped twice, "Arbeitsamt" stamp
- Dave : "0987" stamped twice, "SS" + "SD Krakau" stamps
- Ariel museum (unauthorized Israelian colony in Cisjordania) : "14440" stamped twice, "SD Warschau" stamp

With the exception of the Ariel museum (listed as "official" source), all the other armbands were proposed by sellers or auctioneers.

See You

Vince
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:19 PM   #10
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rbno/Alen ,, Yes, all the pieces here are from them . C.I.A., Central Indiana Auctions..

Most of the fantasy pieces in 'Counterfeiting the Holocaust' are also from them.

They did some big business in the very early 90s.
KZ armbands,, Stars [usually with a burlap back], Yellow Jewish 'cufftitles',, camp 'liberation flags' [some ended up in museums!],, and Camp clothing, jackets, hats, etc. and German soldbuchs to men stationed at the various camps.
They even made some SS [runic] and totenkopf collar tabs sewed to rank tabs with rzm on back and listed as 'old stock' from CZ.!
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:05 PM   #11
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From some special documentary on TV.
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Last edited by TP Alexander; 09-11-2019 at 07:10 PM.
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