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Flag, Pennant and Standarte Forum Wehrmacht, Political and Organizational Standards, flags, and car pennants.

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Old 07-16-2019, 12:11 PM   #16
oldflagswanted
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Default Photo comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldflagswanted View Post
...
S42 is the Berlin location of the KRAAS Foundry, so
"Berlin S42" should be together on the rim. If not,
that indicates to me that the top is a reproduction.
Also the screw hole should aline with the O marking.
Likewise, top in question has screw hole burrs, so
it has IMO never been mounted on a trooping pole.
OFW
(below) Heer Top in question errors.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:44 PM   #17
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This is the one on the miscellaneous table on the estand
Opinions ???
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Great info
Old 07-16-2019, 12:58 PM   #18
james530
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Default Great info

Great info thanks OFW!! the pole top in question in this thread has the same flawed characteristics as the one one on the estand mentioned by Matt both are recast IMO
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evaluation of flaws ???
Old 07-16-2019, 01:25 PM   #19
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Default evaluation of flaws ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by james530 View Post
Great info thanks OFW!! the pole top in question in this
thread has the same flawed characteristics as the one
one on the estand mentioned by Matt both are recast IMO
Hello james530:
Devil is once again in the details when it comes to sorting
out just what is what. If the bottom markings had been
correctly done, these would be a much harder call.
OFW


Quote:
Originally Posted by STLMatt View Post
This is the one on the miscellaneous table on the estand
Opinions ???
STLMatt:
IMO. Has double stamped BERLIN, with detached S42,
& O location error. As such IMO a well done reproduction.
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Hallmarks
Old 07-16-2019, 01:47 PM   #20
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Default Hallmarks

Hello OFW is it common on these regimental pole toppers to have the hallmarks stamped and restamped multiple times over each other ? Or is it a characteristic only on the recasts? Thanks
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Pole top markings/stamps
Old 07-16-2019, 01:53 PM   #21
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Default Pole top markings/stamps

Here are some shots, showing stamps/markings as well as hole position, details.
Hope this helps and not cloud it further.
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File Type: jpg IMG_0012.jpg (71.7 KB, 160 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0011.jpg (67.1 KB, 153 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0010.jpg (73.4 KB, 156 views)
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pole top
Old 07-16-2019, 01:54 PM   #22
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Default pole top

more
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File Type: jpg IMG_0009.jpg (65.7 KB, 158 views)
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Pole top markings
Old 07-16-2019, 03:33 PM   #23
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Default Pole top markings

KP520, yours has the correct markings as OFW has shown in his photo. Mine is marked this way also. The one shown by you is correct. The first one that started the thread is bad. Also the one on stand is bad as well. At first glace I thought the first one was good, but after seeing all of the information, and really looking at the one I have, it is obvious now. Thanks you all for sharing, Smitty.

Last edited by smitty; 07-16-2019 at 03:53 PM.
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Ditto and ...
Old 07-16-2019, 04:25 PM   #24
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Default Ditto and ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty View Post
KP50, yours has the correct markings as OFW has shown in his photo.
Mine is marked this way also. The one shown by you is correct. The first
one that started the thread is bad. Also the one on stand is bad as well.
At first glace I thought the first one was good, but after seeing all of the
information, and really looking at the one I have, it is obvious now. Thanks
you all for sharing, Smitty.
Ditto.
OFW

Quote:
Originally Posted by james530 View Post
Hello OFW is it common on these regimental
pole toppers to have the hallmarks stamped and restamped multiple times
over each other ? Or is it a characteristic only on the recasts? Thanks
Great question. IMO the light "hop" lettering was caused by
a stamping jig position test alignment stroke. The final high
pressure stamping stroke was then done in a slightly adjusted
location on the pole top bottom edge. I base this opinion on
having two like BILDGIESSEREI KRAAS BERLIN S42 sequence
marked Heer tops in my collection. One was direct from the US
GI vet, the other from the Moscow Museum - two great sources.
Both of my originals have some slight "hop" letter stamping.
OFW
(below-right) From my collection.
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Last edited by oldflagswanted; 07-16-2019 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:47 AM   #25
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I really appreciate all the feedback and the way you guys let it progress in debating the details! I have only had one real one in hand and this one just didn't feel right.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:56 PM   #26
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those fakers are getting better at thier game ...i inquided about one a while back that was on a military website that was very similar to these two repros ...don"t remember the thread ,but OFW was able to point out faults ...thank you OFW ,and others for knowledge ... EC
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Old 07-23-2019, 04:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrec27777 View Post
those fakers are getting better at thier game ...i inquided about one a while back that was on a military website that was very similar to these two repros ...don"t remember the thread ,but OFW was able to point out faults ...thank you OFW ,and others for knowledge ... EC
If this is a repro, I'd say that they're getting better at their game. I photo'd many of these with high resolution. The stamping doesn't bother me as much as the finish of the inside of the pole cup. There are many details on this example that coincide with the authentic versions I've had. As far as the burs around edge of the chamfer where the pole screws are, that rise in material around the edge occurs from a screw being fastened very tightly. That's a common result from any fastener with aluminum.

There was an example that was condemned on here last year. It was up for auction and the auction pictures were just plain old lousy. I contacted the auction house and asked for high resolution pictures, which they provided. Needless to say, nobody bid on because everyone insisted it was bad. The example was beautiful. OFW used one of the photos of that example to illustrate the stamping.

If time permits, I'll be happy to share my photos and do a comparison to the original posters example...to show the qualities that look good to me. The 42 location is unusual and so is the finish inside the pole cup. But that said, not much else concerns me. I have to say that I would have to hold this one in my hand for me to make a move on it.
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Old 07-23-2019, 04:38 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kp520 View Post
more
That top looks familiar!
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:35 AM   #29
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Okay...I went through a bunch of photos from authentic pole tops to illustrate the differences. Some have 'O' stampings, one has a 'W' stamp and others have nothing. Some cup interiors are smooth, some are rough. Photography is tricky as it can make the aluminum material look different due to exposure. It can make surfaces look rough or smooth. I have one example that looks smooth in one picture but then rough in another.

My personal experience in handling, photographing many of these, the OP example looks good to me. I look at the material used, casting methods, deburring and polishing techniques. Even similarities in mold defects.

I hate like hell to condemn a piece when it can be authentic. I have yet to see a reproduction come close to the quality of the examples I'm showing. Some of my examples came from a known veteran with authentic standards. All the real deal. Just when you think you can identify a pattern with a specific detail with these tops, another example pops up that contradicts...such as ones having the 'O', no 'O' and a 'W'. Some 'O's align with the screw holes, most don't. I'm not trying to make anyone look bad, just showing what I came across in my travels.
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:36 AM   #30
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