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Old 04-02-2020, 11:13 AM   #1081
Eric Von Rader
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Nice!!!
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Silvertray on e-stand
Old 04-02-2020, 11:44 AM   #1082
SScharfschutze
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Default Silvertray on e-stand

Hi
I´m selling this AH silvertray on e-stand and want to make sure of its genuinity .
I bought this from the real estate of the man who imported/general agent of Mercedes Benz after the war in the south of Sweden. He got this from his connections to Germany.
IS it good?
Do you need more photos, weight or measurements?
Thanks a lot! SScharfschütze
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File Type: jpg P_20200324_192523.jpg (239.2 KB, 224 views)
File Type: jpg P_20200325_171543.jpg (176.5 KB, 227 views)
File Type: jpg P_20200325_171553.jpg (176.1 KB, 229 views)
File Type: jpg P_20200325_171630.jpg (53.9 KB, 225 views)
File Type: jpg P_20200325_171656.jpg (209.9 KB, 224 views)
File Type: jpg P_20200325_171717.jpg (25.8 KB, 223 views)
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Looks hand engraved not roll stamped and no size marking
Old 04-02-2020, 06:59 PM   #1083
Brent Smith
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Default Looks hand engraved not roll stamped and no size marking

Looks to me like a hand engraved piece with flaws to the eagles details . You want to see these roll stamped and also have size markings with the Wellner marking . I do not feel it’s correct and original. Brent
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Old 04-03-2020, 08:49 AM   #1084
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Good eye Brent. I agree with your assessment. I'm providing a couple authentic Wellner roll stamped examples and pointing out the areas of concerns on SScharfschutze example. There are many other flaws than I pointed out in my pictures. One other major flaw I didn't point out was the swastika touching the wreath. Authentic examples swastikas are free floating within the wreath.



Regards,
Mike


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Attached Images
File Type: jpg Authentic AH Eagle 2.jpg (111.8 KB, 207 views)
File Type: jpg Authentic AH Eagle.jpg (154.1 KB, 208 views)
File Type: jpg Questionable 1.jpg (40.4 KB, 206 views)
File Type: jpg Questionable 2.jpg (44.3 KB, 204 views)
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Last edited by Berghof; 04-03-2020 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:53 PM   #1085
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Thanks, Mike -- elegant examples of the roll-stamping on AH Wellner pieces.

Br. James
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Old 04-04-2020, 02:07 AM   #1086
SScharfschutze
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Thanks a lot guys. Really helpfull and informative inputs. I will remove it from the e-stand and return it to were i got it. Its a real jungle..never thought it would be a fake since i got it from the family or collector who died. So it must have been made 20-30 years ago.
Best regards SScharfschutze
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:42 AM   #1087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SScharfschutze View Post
Thanks a lot guys. Really helpfull and informative inputs. I will remove it from the e-stand and return it to were i got it. Its a real jungle..never thought it would be a fake since i got it from the family or collector who died. So it must have been made 20-30 years ago.
Best regards SScharfschutze
You're welcome. It is a jungle out there. If it's any consolation, yours is one of the better fakes I've seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Br. James View Post
Thanks, Mike -- elegant examples of the roll-stamping on AH Wellner pieces.

Br. James
Thank you James. I hope you're doing well.

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Old 04-04-2020, 08:31 AM   #1088
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My pleasure, Mike, and I trust the very same for you, my friend.

What our colleague SScharfschutze has encountered will become more and more prevalent as time passes. Many vets who returned from WWII came home with the beginnings of a collection of TR artifacts, and for many of those vets, those pieces became the seed for further collecting. Vets collected from each other, of course, but they also patronized gun shows and militaria shops, where they inadvertently became prey for the growing field of fakers that we, today, know so well. But those vets didn't know about the fakers, and they also didn't have the reference material and the ability to study the details of TR artifacts which we call upon regularly today. And the result of this 'collector's zeal and innocence' has turned out to be the amount of fake material found in long-time TR collections now coming onto the market. A claim that a vet either brought back a piece from the war, or that someone bought a piece directly from the original vet, has to be the source of some degree of suspicion, sadly, since many forged and faked "Nazi relics" were purchased by vets and early collectors 40 or 50 years ago, or longer ago than that. So all of this is to say that historical study and education is crucial now, more than ever, in our hobby.

Sorry to chunter on about this, but it is a serious matter that has long plagued our hobby and will increase in the future.

Now, everyone STAY WELL, and use this time to gain more knowledge about all of the artifacts we enjoy!

Br. James
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:16 AM   #1089
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Well said James.

While looking on estand, I came across an AH napkin holder. I think it should be discussed. As stated on here before, I personally am not a believer of such pieces and the market is flooded with hundreds of them.

I haven't met a veteran that brought one of these home.

Here are various examples that I've come across with an interesting array of silver content (80, 92.5 & 93.5%).


Napkin Ring 800.JPG

Napkin Ring 925.JPG

Napkin Ring 935.JPG
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:26 AM   #1090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berghof View Post
Well said James.

While looking on estand, I came across an AH napkin holder. I think it should be discussed. As stated on here before, I personally am not a believer of such pieces and the market is flooded with hundreds of them.

I haven't met a veteran that brought one of these home.

Here are various examples that I've come across with an interesting array of silver content (80, 92.5 & 93.5%).


Attachment 4618895

Attachment 4618896

Attachment 4618897
These have never been on any know inventory list and are pure fantasy.
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Old 04-04-2020, 03:50 PM   #1091
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I tend to agree with Erich...I wouldn't want to put any money into one of these pieces, especially given the high market these days.

Cheers, my friend,

Br. James
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These are known fakes.
Old 04-06-2020, 07:10 PM   #1092
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Default These are known fakes.

Yes. Known fakes. Charlie Snyder and others sold them. Sold for around 200 each when they started popping up .. Greek Key pattern is hand done and not perfect. Not roll stamped and eagles details are pressed out and hollow from the inside. fantasy fakes no question ..
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Old 05-05-2020, 06:02 AM   #1093
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Does anyone have a theory as to why the AH silver match cases appear to have been produced to 3 different specs?

Spec 1
With wooden inner drawer. And case is also lined with wood. Photo credit: Brent's antiques

Spec 2
With cardboard/possibly wooden drawer, lined with paper? But still with a wooden inner lining.

Spec 3
Without drawer, no inner wooden lining.


Possible reasons:
- Early spec vs later [cheaper to make] spec
- Wooden drawers and/or liners were removed post-war (very unlikely)
- Different specs for different locations? If so, why? Did the wooden drawers expand in the damp mountain air and cause the drawers to 'stick', so they were replaced? That's possible I suppose.

Join me down this rabbit hole...

Chris
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File Type: jpg 2.jpg (85.5 KB, 140 views)
File Type: jpg 3.jpg (57.7 KB, 136 views)
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Old 05-05-2020, 07:53 AM   #1094
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I guess all we can do is speculate....My guess would be when it was manufactured....to your point - "Early spec vs later [cheaper to make] spec"

Hope your doing well Chris.

Mike
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:34 AM   #1095
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Looks like a replacement insert on "speck 2".
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