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Old 01-12-2018, 06:26 PM   #16
phild
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This is a sad state of affairs. I wonder how many more from this “maker” are out there?
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:32 PM   #17
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Correct me if I am wrong , But What I find confusing is that Don has been issuing COA ‘s to a known person that made a book ( not Mr. Scapini book ) and the author quite clearly states some Honor rings were period cast ....

And some of his cast rings have been published in said book ?

What’s going on ?
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:36 PM   #18
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This thread, amongst others, tbh is continuing to show - for me at least- how WAF cannot continue to be trusted as a vetting site for SS items.
I had posted in the previous thread - and others - direct questions and observations about questionable items.
What happens? These points/questions are ignored. And the 'heavy hitters' carry on. Less than 1000 posts on ss gear? Meh... peddle along.
If you go to lecture by Starkey on the Tudors would you ask to see his 100k collection of Henry VIII's underwear before you took his points seriously? No.
The previous ring was fake as hell. And here we have another one. Defended by.... well a lot of hot air and more deflectional bullsh*t.
The two rings have identical flaws. No it's no buts.
They are fakes.
Everyone makes mistakes but when it's clear that's wrong and yet the defenses keep coming...you have to ask the reasons behind it.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:37 PM   #19
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Regarding "Australia's comment.....
Even if that were true.......the skull still had to be a separate piece, so the ring could be sized, and then the skull soldered onto the ring to cover the seam.
I don't think any of them were cast using lost-wax process.....WAY TOO much time consuming and complicated. I believe they were "stamped out" with a metal press.....the same way hollow jewelry was made during that period.
I guarantee you that the skull and ring were NEVER cast as one piece, which is what we're seeing here.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgstandard View Post
Regarding "Australia's comment.....
Even if that were true.......the skull still had to be a separate piece, so the ring could be sized, and then the skull soldered onto the ring to cover the seam.
I don't think any of them were cast using lost-wax process.....WAY TOO much time consuming and complicated. I believe they were "stamped out" with a metal press.....the same way hollow jewelry was made during that period.
I guarantee you that the skull and ring were NEVER cast as one piece, which is what we're seeing here.
I fully agree .
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:44 PM   #21
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To "I Claudius".....
I respectfully disagree.
If it weren't for the WAF forum.....things would still be status quo.....
The members like Mr. Scapini do their homework, and this thread proves that WAF works exactly like it's supposed to.
Two fake rings have been exposed on the forum.
The sap who pays $7,200 for the Bruns ring will regret that he wasn't a forum member, as soon will the guy who just shelled out $5,000 for the other fake ring.
What more do you want?
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgstandard View Post
To "I Claudius".....
I respectfully disagree.
If it weren't for the WAF forum.....things would still be status quo.....
The members like Mr. Scapini do their homework, and this thread proves that WAF works exactly like it's supposed to.
Two fake rings have been exposed on the forum.
The sap who pays $7,200 for the Bruns ring will regret that he wasn't a forum member, as soon will the guy who just shelled out $5,000 for the other fake ring.
What more do you want?
No that's not my point and respects also for the reply.
My concern is that people with a lot of weight in the collecting field and on this forum are defending fakes.
Yes I absolutely agree with where you are coming from so perhaps I didn't phrase my point as well as I could. Difficult in prose etc
I meant to convey that my trust in a yes/no has been severely eroded over recent months by the defence on nonsense by persons on this forum who are or have been seen as experts in the field.
The work by Antonio etc is superb but it's a sad thing when it is needed
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:17 PM   #23
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It’s all very funny (strange) in one respect. This hobby, like many others, has long been influenced by personalities and psychology of sorts. The knee jerk mantra (one of them) is “buy the item, not the story” however most every collector insists on the story! By this I mean they want to know where an item came from, who sold or owned it and what big name has vetted it. Those elements are in fact also part of the story in as much as some vet tall tale.

What happened with these rings represents the best of this hobby in the sense that some people with real knowledge (not I) specifically explained why the items could not be original and did not cower or succumb to personalities.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:18 PM   #24
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Excellent detective work, but it proves an unfortunate truth, I'm sorry to say.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:59 PM   #25
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Here's something that seems very strange.....
ON E-STAND -
Jan. 1 - Ring listed for sale.
Jan. 2 - Moderator warns it should be put up for discussion & had many red flags.
Jan. 3 6:05 PM - Seller replies it "has Boyle COA, he thinks it's original."
Says ring on hold, awaiting funds. Thanks to new buyer.
ON WAF FORUM -
Jan. 3 6:17PM - Chris 1 starts thread on WAF, says it needs to be discussed.
ON E-STAND -
Jan.4 - Mr. Ferrari posts the WAF thread on E-Stand.
It is now Jan. 12.......
So where is the seller while all this discussion is taking place, and where is the buyer? The ring is listed for sale on WAF.....are they suddenly disinterested in totenkopfrings?

Last edited by sgstandard; 01-12-2018 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:01 PM   #26
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Don:

Glad your. "Known all over the World".

Glad you made it to 66.

Glad you have a lot of People's respect.

Glad you were the first to use the terms "die flaw", "stippling" and "burnishing"

But these rings are undeniably cast and all I care about is can the items stand on their own.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:17 AM   #27
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I can´t believe...

Last edited by equirhodont; 01-13-2018 at 03:50 AM.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:38 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorringman View Post
Funny he had at least 12 to 15 rings certified by me . Let him show all his rings and I can find the same things he is questioning in other rings . I will put red marks all over them but that will not make them bad but will show you can question any ring from just a picture...
Yes I had. Some were sold and I can show here all the rings you want, no one has perfectly matching flaws as those 2 fakes.
But to be honest I started doubting since years ago, when I start seeing some doubtful rings around, but I had no the definitive proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by honorringman View Post
I have only looked at approx. 400 to 500 original Honor Rings.
My guess is: how many fakes have your COA nowdays? How many more will surface in next years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by honorringman View Post
My reputation is known all over the world and I am respected by most people in this hobby my reputation is everything and people who know me respect me. [...]
People who know me will still trust me everyone else is free to go to who they want .
Pandora's vase is open now. Sorry, but I don't trust you any more. I guess who still will?
Too bad we already saw this happening many times in this hobby, from the SS cloths to the SS Champagne decals...
In your post you never mentioned a single word about the ring, only about you. The first ring was ground dug, and this?
Why didn't you admit you do it?
But we all know the reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by honorringman View Post
...don't need to deal with Mr. Scapini and other peoples negativity.
Negativity Don? What's negative for you?
Just because we found the truth behind you COA for 7200$ cast fake rings, should I be negative? Or are you angry because we damaged your business?

EVERYONE DO MISTAKES, but you tried to deliberate fool us saying the first ring was "ground dug" and talking about your reputation. Sorry again, but what you did is well visible to everyone of us here, in these 2 threads.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:34 AM   #29
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Let see will this be another episode ?
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:41 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgstandard View Post
how does a casting line from the skull extend onto the ring itself, if the skull is a separate piece?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff V View Post
Corrosion and ground dug does not add a metal seam between skull and ring.
As with the other thread on the first ring, this crucial point still hasn't been addressed.

Don Boyle said of the first ring and I quote, "I have personally examined the ring and in my personal professional opinion is that this ring is an original ground dug ring".

Now we have a second ring that is almost identical, with another COA of Don Boyle's.

The first ring sold for $4900
This second ring is listed for $7200

There is too much money involved for Don Boyle to walk away with, "This is my last post".

Without Don Boyle addressing these rings this thread will go no where and none of the questions will be answered.
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