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View Poll Results: Which smock pattern best represents the FJ?
Green dual zipper step in (M36) 23 4.57%
Green step in (M38/40) 179 35.59%
Splinter step in (M40) 104 20.68%
Tan tropical step in (M41) 18 3.58%
Splinter button down (M42) 142 28.23%
Water pattern button down (M42) 37 7.36%
Voters: 503. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-04-2009, 06:36 PM   #31
Willi Z.
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Thanks for the data guys! Keep it coming. I will put it to good use soon!

As John and others have said; this poll is about which smock best represents the FJs. Which smock is your favorite will be a different poll later. Please don't mix apples and oranges yet.

Yes John, I did not want to leave out the tropical M41, or the M36 for that matter. I am surprised 2 have selected the M41 and 1 for the M36 so far.

I see this as a focus group, so whatever people think gets reflected.

Rob, that smock look superb! I know you told me the maker and date already, but I would love to see some more photos.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:28 PM   #32
John Hodgin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Zillmann View Post
Dear John,

Your opinion may be honestly held, but they were not called 'Splintertarn Devils' by their fellow countrymen, were they?

I believe that those of us who have voted for the M38/40 have been motivated by the 'images' of 1940 and 1941. True, the splinter smocks were in evidence in Crete, but not to the same extent as the earlier M38/40. To me, as I guess to many other enthusiasts, the image will always be the sweaty, grimey Jaeger of Crete, victorious in his green smock.

That is my honest opinion.

Cheers,

Hugh
Greetings Hugh,

I disagree slightly with your comment about the M40s worn on Crete, and believe splinter versions were used on Crete in numbers equal to, and perhaps greater than, green smocks. At the time of Crete, splinter smocks were the improved pattern and cutting edge.

And Hugh, splinter smocks are predominately green, so "Green Devils" still applies. This term was widely used to describe the paras at Cassino where splinter smocks were in the majority. Like you, my honest opinion.
Regards,
John
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Old 11-05-2009, 01:45 PM   #33
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A green 38/40 for sure! Because it remaind me the battle for Creta


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Old 11-05-2009, 04:12 PM   #34
Luca Ongaro
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I am for M38/40
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:22 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hodgin View Post
Greetings Hugh,

I disagree slightly with your comment about the M40s worn on Crete, and believe splinter versions were used on Crete in numbers equal to, and perhaps greater than, green smocks. At the time of Crete, splinter smocks were the improved pattern and cutting edge.

And Hugh, splinter smocks are predominately green, so "Green Devils" still applies. This term was widely used to describe the paras at Cassino where splinter smocks were in the majority. Like you, my honest opinion.
Regards,
John
Hello John,

In your book (at p.63 or thereabouts, I think) you make the observation to the effect that the "splinter pattern" smock conveys the image of the Fallschirmjaeger. This is, of course, both a very bold and very subjective observation. It is your opinion. In many respects it equates to what others have said on this thread - you like splintertarn smocks.

I disagree with this opinion, insofar as it advanced as being immutable fact - that the image of the Fallschirmjaeger is inextricably linked to the wearing of this particular type of smock. I, like you, find splintertarn attractive, but I do not share the belief that it is intrinsic to the image of the WW2 German paratrooper. I think that 'image' was well established before Crete and, unless I am mistaken, the term 'Green Devils' (as a descriptive of Fallschirmjaeger) was already in use, in publications such as Signal and der Adler, well before Unternehmen Merkur. A 'splintertarn' smock may be "predominantly green", but it did not exist before May 1941. The expression 'Green Devils' did. It was a term of public endearment. A 'nickname' for a brave group of men. A term already well in use prior to the battles at Cassino and inextricably linked to them.

We need to separate two issues here. The first is our own preference for a particular style of smock. The second is to identify, objectively, the pattern of smock which comes to mind when we envisage the 'Fallschirmjaeger of our dreams'. This is the task that has been set us and this is what we are all, honestly I believe, endeavouring to do.

All the best,

Hugh
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:58 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Zillmann View Post
Hello John,

In your book (at p.63 or thereabouts, I think) you make the observation to the effect that the "splinter pattern" smock conveys the image of the Fallschirmjaeger. This is, of course, both a very bold and very subjective observation. It is your opinion. In many respects it equates to what others have said on this thread - you like splintertarn smocks.

I disagree with this opinion, insofar as it advanced as being immutable fact - that the image of the Fallschirmjaeger is inextricably linked to the wearing of this particular type of smock. I, like you, find splintertarn attractive, but I do not share the belief that it is intrinsic to the image of the WW2 German paratrooper. I think that 'image' was well established before Crete and, unless I am mistaken, the term 'Green Devils' (as a descriptive of Fallschirmjaeger) was already in use, in publications such as Signal and der Adler, well before Unternehmen Merkur. A 'splintertarn' smock may be "predominantly green", but it did not exist before May 1941. The expression 'Green Devils' did. It was a term of public endearment. A 'nickname' for a brave group of men. A term already well in use prior to the battles at Cassino and inextricably linked to them.

We need to separate two issues here. The first is our own preference for a particular style of smock. The second is to identify, objectively, the pattern of smock which comes to mind when we envisage the 'Fallschirmjaeger of our dreams'. This is the task that has been set us and this is what we are all, honestly I believe, endeavouring to do.

All the best,

Hugh
Well said Hugh, and I easily understand your point, and considered this in detail before writing my book.

However you assume incorrectly. Were the question for my preference for a particular smock, splinter would not be my choice, but the M38 without added pockets; one of the rarest of smocks. (Also my opinion.) But does the M38 and M40 in GM represent the image of Fj in the majority of battles in which they fought throughout the war? IMHO, no.

We will have to agree to disagree, and I hope you are not offended this and other opinions in my book. Happy collecting.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:58 PM   #37
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Correct answer: splinter

I suspect that the two separate splinter categories, if combined, would win.

That being said, I love them all.
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:33 PM   #38
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I don't think there's a correct answer in this poll, it is rather what visually comes in the mind of each one when they think "Fallschirmjaeger".
And at least to me it is "round" helmet, green smock, baggy pants
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:38 PM   #39
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What did the FJ themselves prefer ? I know some liked green smocks because it made them look like old hands, but what about the majority ?
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:19 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Davis View Post
That being said, I love them all.
Mir also, even the SS pattern, which to date, has not been shown in wear.

An interesting and similar analogy to Willi's jump smock question would be, "which jump helmet best represents the Fj?
1. DD
2. SD
3. Camo, and if camo, a specific camo?
4. late war no decal

Perhaps we should create this thread.
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Last edited by John Hodgin; 11-06-2009 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:37 PM   #41
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No camo SD in my opinion. If I think about the quintessential image, in my mind's eye I see an FJ with SD helmet, splinter smock (with rolled up sleeves), MP40 and magazine pouch, P08 holster, para trousers and front lacing boots - classic for Italy, France, Holland, etc.! But that is just me.
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Old 11-06-2009, 11:23 PM   #42
Federico Perez
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For me is the splinter pattern, the early years of the FJ campaings are indeed full of glory and great tactical achivement, but in my personal opinion the 1943 on ward battlefield campaings was really the most hard,brutal and also amazing test this elite units of the FJ will have and endure against inmense odds and superior number in all fronts, even with all this against them, their reputation as professional soldiers and elite fighting force was seal forever and reconized by their former enemies.

The look of a FJ trooper in splinter jump smock, cammo helmet...even if is only mud and all the equipement they carried in those days, like in Monte Cassino or Normandy is for me the ultimate image of an WW2 Fallschirmjager in battle......but again that is only my VERY personal opinion!!!
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Old 11-06-2009, 11:29 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federico Perez View Post
For me is the splinter pattern, the early years of the FJ campaings are indeed full of glory and great tactical achivement, but in my personal opinion the 1943 on ward battlefield campaings was really the most hard,brutal and also amazing test this elite units of the FJ will have and endure against inmense odds and superior number in all fronts, even with all this against them, their reputation as professional soldiers and elite fighting force was seal forever and reconized by their former enemies.

The look of a FJ trooper in splinter jump smock, cammo helmet...even if is only mud and all the equipement they carried in those days, like in Monte Cassino or Normandy is for me the ultimate image of an WW2 Fallschirmjager in battle......but again that is only my VERY personal opinion!!!
That is exactly how I see it as well.
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:42 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federico Perez View Post
For me is the splinter pattern, the early years of the FJ campaings are indeed full of glory and great tactical achivement, but in my personal opinion the 1943 on ward battlefield campaings was really the most hard,brutal and also amazing test this elite units of the FJ will have and endure against inmense odds and superior number in all fronts, even with all this against them, their reputation as professional soldiers and elite fighting force was seal forever and reconized by their former enemies.

The look of a FJ trooper in splinter jump smock, cammo helmet...even if is only mud and all the equipement they carried in those days, like in Monte Cassino or Normandy is for me the ultimate image of an WW2 Fallschirmjager in battle......but again that is only my VERY personal opinion!!!
This is how I see it too. My collection is based around it.
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Old 11-07-2009, 09:30 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federico Perez View Post
For me is the splinter pattern, the early years of the FJ campaings are indeed full of glory and great tactical achivement, but in my personal opinion the 1943 on ward battlefield campaings was really the most hard,brutal and also amazing test this elite units of the FJ will have and endure against inmense odds and superior number in all fronts, even with all this against them, their reputation as professional soldiers and elite fighting force was seal forever and reconized by their former enemies.

The look of a FJ trooper in splinter jump smock, cammo helmet...even if is only mud and all the equipement they carried in those days, like in Monte Cassino or Normandy is for me the ultimate image of an WW2 Fallschirmjager in battle......but again that is only my VERY personal opinion!!!
Federico, count me with Willi and Steve! Extrememly well stated! This is exactly what I meant in my book when describing the splinter smock as representing the "classic" image of the Fj during WWII.

Cassino is key (for me), a horrific battle against overwhelming men and material in which the Fj never surrendered, and had to be repeatedly ordered to retreat. Green devils indeed!

And Mike, I agree with you about the SD helmet.
John
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