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Untouched helmet M16 TJ68 fresh attic find
Old 04-25-2019, 09:41 AM   #1
hagen.191
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Default Untouched helmet M16 TJ68 fresh attic find

Had a very lucky day. Found this nice untouched M16 from C.Thiel und Söhne/Lübeck in size 68. What a large pot. Nicely named inside. If anybody is able to read it please let me know. Helmet came straight out of an attic in Wiesbaden the capitol of Hessen. Never cleaned or oiled. Was stored in a wooden box!

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Old 04-25-2019, 01:07 PM   #2
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"Sergeant Stüler" is the name of the Vet! Thanks to Heiko for the help!

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Old 04-25-2019, 07:56 PM   #3
Hans K.
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Congratulations on your find. Thiel manufactured helmets often have this unusual chipping to the paint, as if the paint was applied very thinly and became brittle.

The only negative thing I can say about the helmet is that the rear pin looks like one of those infamous rounded-end repro/fakes that pop up from time to time. The thickness of the 'heads' on these are also not quite right. See the artificially aged examples below for comparison.

Hans
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:57 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans K. View Post
Congratulations on your find. Thiel manufactured helmets often have this unusual chipping to the paint, as if the paint was applied very thinly and became brittle.

The only negative thing I can say about the helmet is that the rear pin looks like one of those infamous rounded-end repro/fakes that pop up from time to time. The thickness of the 'heads' on these are also not quite right. See the artificially aged examples below for comparison.

Hans
Thanks for your Feedback Hans but this helmet hasnt been in collectors Hands before and is untouched since decades. So i cant imagine that something was replaced. I took better photos of the rear pin. To be honest i dont see any red flags but your sophisticated experience and opinion is highly appreciated.

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Old 04-26-2019, 10:05 AM   #5
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Pins look good to me. Nice find.
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Old 04-26-2019, 01:31 PM   #6
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I think Hans has got the wrong glasses on . it all looks very nice to me . Rob
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Old 04-27-2019, 02:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
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I think Hans has got the wrong glasses on . it all looks very nice to me . Rob
Thank you Robb and SB. It came straight from the attic and I did not have any doubts about the untouched condition but we all know that "the Devil is a squirrel".

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Old 04-27-2019, 08:55 AM   #8
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I've looked through pictures and examined helmets just to be sure, and the closest I can find to round ended liner pins in WW1 German helmets are examples that don't come close to resembling the known reproductions I mentioned earlier.

Below are some versions that come close - one appears to be a wartime replacement because it doesn't match the other pins in the helmet and the other one is the rear pin of a T.J. 66 helmet. They may have somewhat rounded edges but they have been clipped.

Anyone else have examples in their collections which they feel match the rear pin in the OP helmet?
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File Type: jpg Original.jpg (69.4 KB, 234 views)
File Type: jpg Realz.jpg (59.9 KB, 234 views)
File Type: jpg DSC04319.JPG.87facffb8e77d0bc87ce0fb1d5b7ff7a.JPG (154.3 KB, 231 views)
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Old 04-27-2019, 12:02 PM   #9
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My previous response was rushed and incomplete because I had to get out the door quickly this morning. It's admittedly a bit confusing.
Let's try that again.

I would love to see any examples of pins considered to be originals that resemble the rear pin inside hagen.191's helmet.

Below are liner pins that come close to the OP helmet's rear pin in that the ends are rounded.

The top pin is the most unusual pin I've yet seen that is probably original. It is the front left pin (as worn) from a B.F. 64 helmet. It isn't original to the helmet but I have no idea if it's a wartime replacement or later. It comes closest to the rear pin in hagen.191's helmet, although one side has the corners slightly clipped.

The middle pin is the rear pin from a T.J. 66 and is original to the helmet. Even though the ends are rounded, they are clipped and uneven.

The bottom pin is a modern repro pin discussed in post #3 that I purchased from Manion's Auction House back in the 90s and put inside a helmet as a place-holder.
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File Type: jpg OriginalOrNot.jpg (69.4 KB, 230 views)
File Type: jpg Realz.jpg (59.9 KB, 229 views)
File Type: jpg DSC04319.JPG.87facffb8e77d0bc87ce0fb1d5b7ff7a.JPG (154.3 KB, 230 views)

Last edited by Hans K.; 04-27-2019 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 04-27-2019, 02:17 PM   #10
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After viewing quite a few helmets (M16/M17/Austrian), I think the Austrian one comes closest to the rear pin on Hagen's M17 that I can find. It does look a lot like the repo's Hans posted, but I wouldn't rule it out as being original. What stood out a little bit to me was not only the tip of the prongs , but the length as well. Just as we say, buy the helmet not the story, many different adjustments were made during this period... they adapted, overcame, and moved on.


Chuck
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Old 04-27-2019, 02:19 PM   #11
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A few more...
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Old 04-27-2019, 03:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Roelens View Post
After viewing quite a few helmets (M16/M17/Austrian), I think the Austrian one comes closest to the rear pin on Hagen's M17 that I can find.

Chuck
That's a good point Chuck and it's something that did cross my mind. I try to never mix German and Austrian helmets when discussing a helmet's features however. The two really are like comparing apples and oranges.

Even if the liner pin is a modern replacement it's hardly a catastrophic blow to the helmet's historic and monetary value. If it is genuine WW1 German made, it is a very unusual one to be sure. I'm still leaning toward the first possibility.

Thank you Chuck for sharing your insightful views. I always look forward to them.

Last edited by Hans K.; 04-27-2019 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 04-27-2019, 03:54 PM   #13
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Hans and Chuck, great to hear the opinions of two ww1 helmet collector dinosaurs based on a lot of photos from their own collection. To follow such a thread is more effective than reading 10 books about german ww1 helmets. A pleasure to see the discussion is flourishing.
Hans is still critical towards my M16's pin so i took some photos of two pins from another M16 helmets from my collection to turn the scales in my collection.
First helmet is a M16 Q66 i got out of the woodwork too and the second one is a totally untouched M16 SI66 Mimikry i got last year and showed in GHW2 recently. Both liners havent been touched and show similar pins. Of course you guys say "dont buy the story" but i am still leaning out of the Window and say: a totally uncleaned helmet from an attic with no other military items in it, with dust overall and identical old rust spots on shell and pin found by a household dissolver with absolutely no militaria background doesnt appear after decades with a perfectly aged Repro pin.



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Old 04-28-2019, 12:05 AM   #14
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Do you see the difference between the original liner pins you posted in your last thread and the liner pin in question?
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Old 04-28-2019, 12:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
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I think Hans has got the wrong glasses on . it all looks very nice to me . Rob
Agreed.
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