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Hoping for help on Fallschirm-Fla-MG-Btl. and Lw.Rgt. Barenthin
Old 04-23-2019, 04:29 PM   #1
Archi
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Default Hoping for help on Fallschirm-Fla-MG-Btl. and Lw.Rgt. Barenthin

Hello !

I have some questions regarding the Fallschirm-Fla-MG-Bataillon and hope for some help !

What I would like to clarify is : its origin, which parts became part of Lw-Rgt. Barenthin and what happened to that unit,
after Rgt. Barenthin was captured at Tunis.
(It would also be interesting, which weapons Fsch.-Fla-MG-Btl. had : only 2cm Flak or also other calibres ?)

My current understanding :
- In 1940, it had 5 batteries and was part of 7. Flieger-Division (therefore also designated as Fsch.Flak-Abt. 7 or Fsch.Fla-Btl. 7).
(In the Feldpost entries, the designation : 1. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung etc. is used)
- From 1941 onward, it became Korps-unit of XI. Flieger-Korps.
- Kdr. was Hptm./Maj. Hanns Baier from 05/41 until ??.1943.
- 1941, the Fallschirm-Fla-MG-Btl. was sent to the area of Rshew (Dec. 41 - April 42) [Busch, Fsjg.-Chronik, p. 183]
- At least one Kp./Bttr. was sent to the Mius front with Fsjg.Rgt 2 in Dec. 1941 (was this the 4. Kp. (Chef: Hptm. Maurer /KGr. Dewald))?
[Busch, p. 39 bottom and p. 183]).

From mid 1942 onward, major reorganizations started and also my problems start :
- 7. Flieger-Division should be reorganized into 1. Fsjg.Div.
- 2. Fsjg.Div. should be formed (perhaps partially using Korps-units from XI. Flieger-Korps ?!)

The connection of Fsch.-Fla-MG-Btl. to Rgt. Barenthin (I'll use Fs.-Fla-MG, instead Fsch.-Flak-Abt., used with the FP entries ) :
Some evidence can be established from various signatures and stamps on citations, known officers and the FPNs :

The III. Btl./Rgt. Barenthin was obviously formed, using the Stab and 3 companies from the Fallschirm-Fla-MG-Btl. :
- Stab : FPN 36003 ; (Stab Fsch.-Fla-MG-Btl. => Stab III Luftwaffen-Regiment Barenthin (Kdr.: Maj. Baier/Maj. Rapräger ?!)
-- FPN 37885 ; 2. Bttr./Fs.-Fla-MG-Btl. => 9. Kompanie Luftwaffen-Regiment Barenthin (Chef: Hptm. Meuth ?)
-- FPN 38092 ; 3. Bttr./Fs.-Fla-MG-Btl. => 10. Kompanie Luftwaffen-Regiment Barenthin (Chef: Hptm. Grünewald ?)
-- FPN 40786 ; 5. Bttr./Fs.-Fla-MG-Btl. => 11. Kompanie Luftwaffen-Regiment Barenthin (Chef: Hptm. Parnitzke (+6.12.42); Oblt. Fikentscher)

As this was essentially the former Fsch.-Fla-MG-Btl., they still used this unit designation on the VWA citation, instead of III./Lw.Rgt. Barenthin. (my interpretation ).

My major questions are :
1.) What happened afterwards, in ~ mid 1943 ?
According to Tessin, Fallschirm Flak-Abt. 1 of the 1. Fsjg.Div. was formed with only a 1. and 4. Kp.
Interestingly, these are exactly the numbers of the two companies of Fsch.Fla-MG-Btl., not captured at Tunis.
The FPN numbers seem to indicate, that 1. (FPN 37429) and 4. (FPN 40298) Batterie Fsch-Fla-MG-Btl. => 1. and 4. Fsch-Flak-Abt. 1
Is there a connection of the "old" Fallschirm-Fla-MG-Btl. to the Flak-Abt. of the 1. Fsjg.Division ?!

2.) On the other hand, in Jan. 1944, all 5 batteries of Fsch.Flak-Abt. 1 recieved NEW FPN (but 1. only in April)
(see bottom, for a quick overview on the various FPN involved )

3.) Finally, what happened to the former Fallschirm-MG-Btl. of 7. Flieger-Division (at sometime led by Hptm. Erich Scholz) ?
The FPN seem to indicate that this unit (with 3 companies) was redesignated to Fallschirm-MG-Btl. 1
But I couldn't find it under 1. Fsjg.Div.
Was this another Korps unit of I. Fsch.Korps or where would it belong organizationally ?!

Perhaps there are some documents related to the units in question (or other infos) that could shed some light on this.

-----------------
Background of these questions is the VWA citation shown below :
I would like to get an idea, where this soldier was before and what could be his unit after the wounding in Afrika.
Some discussion already has been going on here :
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=998515
Some interesting info already has been posted in the link, but only partially answer my questions :
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=Barenthin

Many thanks for any help on these questions !

Best regards,

Archi

================================================== ==
For a quick reference : sources used and the relevant FPN entries :

http://gliederungundstellenbesetzung...barenthin.html

Personalities connected (data from Larry de Zeng list/ Scherzer (RKT) / Stellenbesetzung-link ):

- BAIER, Hanns. (DOB: 27.04.03). (DKG). 15.10.39 Hptm., Führer d. Messübungsstelle d. Flakart.
Schule Göppingen, appt Kdr. of Lehrstab A/Flakart. Schule IV Göppingen. 1941 Hptm., Kdr.
Fsch.Flugabwehr-Btl. 7/7. Flieger-Div. 05.41 Kdr. Fsch.Flak-Abt. 7 (and 01.42). 22.04.43 Maj. and Kdr.
III./Lw.-Rgt. Barenthin, appt provisional Kdr. Lw.-Rgt. Barenthin. 01.05.43 provisional Kdr. Lw.-Rgt.

- Barenthin, promo to Obstlt. 19.06.43 appt permanent Kdr. Lw.-Rgt. Barenthin. 23.07.43 awarded DKG,
Lw.-Rgt.Barenthin. 01.11.43 promo to Obstlt.
- ObLt. Fikentscher : DKiG 1943 (?) with Fsch.-Fla-MG-Btl.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=Fikentscher
- Hptm./Maj. Rapräger : 1943 acting Kdr. Fsch-Flak-Abt. 7, RK on 10.05.43 KGr.führer Lw.-Rgt. Barenthin
- Ob.Lt. Mischke : RK 18.05.43, 2./Fsch.Fla-MG-Btl.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=Mischke
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...0&postcount=10

==============
FPNs of Fallschirm-Fla-MG-Btl. (in the FP-Übersicht designated as : Fallschirm-Flak-Abt. )

- Stab : FPN 36003 : (28.4.1940-19.9.1940) Stab I Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung Fallschirm-Flieger-Division 7,
(1.10.1940-27.2.1941) Stab Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung,

-- FPN 37429 : (28.4.1940-19.9.1940) 1. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung,
(12.3.1943-7.9.1943) 1. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 1,

-- FPN 37885 : (28.4.1940-19.9.1940) 2. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung,
(8.9.1942-11.3.1943) 9. Kompanie Luftwaffen-Regiment Barenthin,
(12.3.1943-7.9.1943) gestrichen (Tunis), u. 9. Kompanie Luftwaffen-Regiment Barenthin,

-- FPN 38092 : (28.4.1940-19.9.1940) 3. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung,
(8.9.1942-11.3.1943) 10. Kompanie Luftwaffen-Regiment Barenthin,
(8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 30.11.1943 gestrichen (Tunis) u. 3. Kompanie Fallschirm-MG-Bataillon 2,

-- FPN 40298 : (30.7.1941-28.2.1942) 4. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung,
(12.3.1943-7.9.1943) 4. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 1,
(8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 10.11.1943 gestrichen,

-- FPN 40786 : (30.7.1941-28.2.1942) 5. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung,
(8.9.1942-11.3.1943) 11. Kompanie Luftwaffen-Regiment Barenthin,
(8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 30.11.1943 1. Kompanie Fallschirm-MG-Bataillon 2,
(23.4.1944-24.11.1944) 14.8.1944 gestrichen.

------
Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 1 (1. Fsjg.Div.) :
- Stab FPN 49540 : (8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 27.1.1944 Stab Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 1.

-- FPN 37429 : (28.4.1940-19.9.1940) 1. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung,
(12.3.1943-7.9.1943) 1. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 1,
(23.4.1944-24.11.1944) 26.7.1944 1. Kompanie Fallschirm-MG-Bataillon 1,
(23.4.1944-24.11.1944) 28.10.1944 Kampfschule 1. Fallschirmjäger-Division.

-- FPN 40298 : (30.7.1941-28.2.1942) 4. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung,
(12.3.1943-7.9.1943) 4. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 1,
(8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 10.11.1943 gestrichen,

-- FPN 49783 : (8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 12.4.1944 1. Batterie (neu) Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 1.
-- FPN 49899 : (8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 27.1.1944 2. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 1.
-- FPN 50576 : (8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 27.1.1944 3. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 1.
-- FPN 50653 : (8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 27.1.1944 4. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 1.
-- FPN 50697 : (8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 27.1.1944 5. Batterie Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 1.
-- FPN 50806 : (8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 27.1.1944 Kolonne Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 1.

------
FPNs of III. Lw-Rgt. Barenthin:

- Stab : FPN 36003 : (8.9.1942-11.3.1943) Stab III Luftwaffen-Regiment Barenthin,
(12.3.1943-7.9.1943) gestrichen (Tunis),

-- FPN 37885 : (8.9.1942-11.3.1943) 9. Kompanie Luftwaffen-Regiment Barenthin,
(12.3.1943-7.9.1943) gestrichen (Tunis),

-- FPN 38092 : (8.9.1942-11.3.1943) 10. Kompanie Luftwaffen-Regiment Barenthin,
(8.9.1943-22.4.1944) 30.11.1943 gestrichen (Tunis)

-- FPN 40786 : (8.9.1942-11.3.1943) 11. Kompanie Luftwaffen-Regiment Barenthin,

-------------
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Old 04-27-2019, 09:52 AM   #2
peterm
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Hi Archi!

3.) Finally, what happened to the former Fallschirm-MG-Btl. of 7. Flieger-Division (at sometime led by Hptm. Erich Scholz) ?
The FPN seem to indicate that this unit (with 3 companies) was redesignated to Fallschirm-MG-Btl. 1
But I couldn't find it under 1. Fsjg.Div.

Didn't the MG-Btl. change to "Fallschirm-Granatwerfer-Bataillon"?

Best, Peter
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:53 AM   #3
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Hello Peterm !

Yes, I think you are right !
FPN 22261 (28.4.1940-14.9.1940) Stab Fallschirm-MG-Bataillon,(10.2.1943-23.8.1943) Stab Fallschirm-MG-Bataillon 1,
(6.4.1944-9.11.1944) 19.7.1944 Stab Fallschirm-Granatwerfer-Bataillon 1.

Member daflocki007 gave me some hints that the above info on which units of Fs-Fla-MG-Btl. went into Lw-Rgt. Barenthin
should be roughly correct (and some interesting tips on literature) .

What I still don't understand :
Did the former Fallschirm-Fla-MG-Btl. become an organic part of 1. Fsjg.Div. or was it the former Fallschirm-MG-Btl. ?!
Or did this change at some time ?

There are conflicting informations in Busch, (Fsg.Chronik, 1st scan April 43) and Tessin (2nd scan Mai 43).

Thanks for any further information !

Best regards,

Archi
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Old 04-28-2019, 07:20 AM   #4
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Hi Archi!

As far as I know the "Fallschirm-Fla-MG-Bataillon" was disbanded in 1943 but I can't find the source I have this information from. Maybe it was one of hundreds of "Der deutsche Fallschirmjäger"-magazines...

Here some docs from a man who spent his whole FJ-career with "Fallschirm-MG-Bataillon" and later on with "Fallschirm-Granatwerfer-Bataillon". I think I once posted the whole estate if You are interested.

Best, Peter
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File Type: jpg Urkunde_EK II. Klasse (1939)_av.jpg (52.0 KB, 120 views)
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:16 PM   #5
Archi
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Hello Peterm !

Many thanks for showing this interesting docs (and pointing to the full group).
The Soldbuch shows exactly the kind of information i was hoping for !

It makes very clear to me, that Fallschirm-MG-Btl. 7 of 7. Flieger-Div. (1.-3. Kp.) => Fsch.-MG-Btl. 1 => Fsch.Grw.Btl. 1
(and from the battle-calendar presented with the full group, it is even clear now, that this unit was with HGr. Mitte in Russia
from Oct. 42 - March 43. That closes another gap of information !)

Regarding the Fallschirm-Fla-MG-Btl. :
I think you are also right, that this unit was disbanded mid 1943.
My question should have been :
Stab and 2., 3., 5. Kp. were destroyed at Tunis and 4. (or elements) at Stalingrad :
- Were the remnants (1. and perhaps elements of the 4.) used for the formation of the Fallschirm-Flak-Abt. 1 ?!
(This is what the FPN suggests). Or was this a completely new unit ?

And the background of the question :
If my soldier would have returned to his former unit, could Fsch-Flak-Abt. 1 be his next unit ?
A SB or WP (or other docs) could perhaps answer this.
(This is just to get an idea, I am aware that there are many things possible ...).

Thanks for the interesting infos so far !

Best regards,

Archi
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Old 05-01-2019, 01:59 AM   #6
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Hi

A Deathcard of a FJ killed in Stalingrad and buried in Rossoschka

He should be a member of 4./Fallsch. Fla MG Btl 7



Regards
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Old 05-01-2019, 02:05 AM   #7
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https://militariarelics.com/german/d...groupings/4357

A member of 1./Fallsch. Fla MG Btl killed in Ostfront

Regards
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:33 AM   #8
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Hello windhund !

Many thanks for your ongoing help !

That are some excellent examples.
And the Wehrpass confirms, that 1./Fla-MG-Btl. was also committed in the area of HGr. Mitte, with Fsjg.Rgt.1.
So far, I had no infos on that. Sadly, he was KIA in Feb. 1943.

But maybe there is a slim chance that someone owns a WP/SB of this company, and could have a look,
which unit would be entered in the WP in ~mid 1943 ?!
(I know : ... always hoping for more ... )

Thanks for all the interesting information provided so far. Many things are much clearer now !

Best regards,

Archi
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