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Old 12-10-2017, 11:28 AM   #16
FrenchVolunteer
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Hi,

now like i said in post #11, comment 6), we can only suspect that the area circled in yellow had damaged houses/barns that needed to be quickly rebuilt, so the Panther was moved from the side of the road to the Val de Breuil field, near the Chemin du Vieux Moulin.

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Vince
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Old 12-10-2017, 04:03 PM   #17
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Hi Vince - thanks for the images of Briouze - they are quite extraordinary!

1) is it fully confirmed that PIC 2 and PIC 3 were taken at the same location, and are of the same Panther ?
They are of the same Panther, both images were in the photo album of an Aunt of Vincent Leclerc, whose grandfather (her father) took Pic 2. We have four things that lead us to conclude its the same location:
The downward angle from the road into a field
The rotated angle of the turret
The angle of the barrel
The engine deck cover location

2) Where the two pictures (PIC 2 and PIC 3) taken at the same time ?
Unknown - however we think Pic 3 would have been taken around the same time

3) When was the picture PIC 3 taken ? Late 44-early 45 ?
Pic 2 was taken in spring of '45 - likely pic 3 around the same time

4) why the hell would the Panther be moved from a long distance ?
Fred Duprun reasons that it may have been part of a 45/46 civil towing to a scrapyard either at Argentan or Saint-Lambert. A civil tow could make more sense that the US Army refitting it and trying to move it somewhere.

5) Was the right track broken from the start?
Track is broken in all images - known and unknown

6. The road in the unknown picture cannot be in Briouze - not only is the topography completely wrong, there is no road in Briouze that follows that curve into a right hand curve downhill into the town

7. See image below to see results of shelling on 31 July 1944

8. See reply to 6 above

9. Image was released by the censor in October 44

10. See below

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Old 12-10-2017, 04:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchVolunteer View Post
Hi,

now like i said in post #11, comment 6), we can only suspect that the area circled in yellow had damaged houses/barns that needed to be quickly rebuilt, so the Panther was moved from the side of the road to the Val de Breuil field, near the Chemin du Vieux Moulin.

See You

Vince
Thanks Vince

If you are talking about the unknown location - the Argentan road is not only ruler straight and has the same elevation along its length, its does not curve downhill going into the town - in fact it goes uphill from outside of the town, into the town

For the known images - I doubt this as per the reasons in #17/1 above

For every spot along the Argentan road look on the aerial image at what should view behind the tank in the side images - yet there are no trees or house in them.


Last edited by dsotm; 12-10-2017 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 12-10-2017, 04:22 PM   #19
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Hi,

thanks for your reply.

Now the problem is still : why would anyone move a damaged Panther from an unknown location to... Briouze ?
Also only the US Army can move the Panther due to its weight...
If the tank was found in Falaise or Argentan, i suspect that it would have been towed to local tank scrapyard ?

If the Briouze Church is on a hill, we can eliminate everything that is located in the West of the 44-45 location.

So we need to check on the East of the village.
Of course in that case we are still implying that the Panther in all the pics is the same...

More questions :

1) do we know if it may be possible that the tank was put in Briouze because someone from the area "bought" it, to keep it, or to dismantle it for its metal parts ? Do we have any more infos about the arrival of the tank in the village ?

2) do you have period air photos (44 or 45) of the area (East of Briouze) ?

3) do we have a map showing the attack of the Kampfgruppe from which the Panther is said to have been part of ?

4) It is right that we are not sure that the unknown location was the "first" last location of the tank (when it was evacuated by its crew) ? I suspect that it is ?

5) i suspect that the railway line on the North of Briouze existed at the time... So it would have been hard for the US Army to transport the tank in the tunnel under railway line...

The more i check the situation, the more it looks very illogical... Why would this Panther been moved from an unknown location to Briouze ?

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Vince
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Old 12-10-2017, 05:26 PM   #20
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Hi Vince

Trust me we are very well aware of the mystery as who, how and why this tank was moved from its unknown location to Briouze. The only thing we can be certain of is that its was done either by by Allied engineers or locals.

While the discussion as to the exact location of the Briouze images is helpful, it is not what we currently need to nail down, which is the location of the unknown image - all that we do know about this image is that it definitely is not in Briouze.

We do know that this tank was part of Operation Luttich - the counter-offensive at Mortain. Whether or not this tank was disabled there, or after the retreat from 14th August, we do not yet know.
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Mission Accomplished!
Old 05-05-2018, 06:42 AM   #21
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Default Mission Accomplished!

Mission Accomplished!

The location of the Panther image from the Library of Congress has been identified by author and researcher David E. Brown. We and the Wheatcroft Collection are immensely grateful to David and his reward is on its way. We are now coordinating with local historians and researchers to add as much info as possible to this period of the vehicles history.
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Old 05-14-2018, 01:33 PM   #22
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Hi,

bravo, looking forward to read the report !

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Vince
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Old 06-07-2018, 12:58 PM   #23
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Hi,

the full report on the location is available here :

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=964285

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Vince
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