Who's This??

[stogieman]

Okay Mr. Magic, now that I actually own this, any idea who this was??

[stogieman]

......... This:

You holdin' out on me, now, punk? Huh?

And what is that doing down on the rug where the dogs...


Oh my, this one looks like FUN! Screw shoveling the rest of the street frontage, I'm burying my nose in Ranglisten for the rest of the day!!!!

[Daniel Krause]

grrrrrrr.... moremad

I agree-- I've been in his house: I know what those dogs do on the rug!!! moremad

Here is a PRELIMINARY possible, matches on 5 of 6 pre-war Orders (and as Werner knows, THAT brings us to "And so who ELSE could it be?..."):

Wolfgang Freiherr zu Inn- und Knyphausen. Born Tecklenburg 1 February 1866. In 1914 Major commanding II./Inf Rgt 15 with (as of May)-- Red Eagle 4th With Crown, Crown 3rd, XXV, 1897, Sax Albert-Knight 1st with Crown (if you didn't sell that Autengruber volume, you can find his award date), Lippe-Detmold House Order 4th. His Bavarian Military Merit 4th with Crown (peacetime) was gazetted in the MWB 20.6.14-- that only leaves the Saxe-Ernestine House Order unaccounted for. (He had previously served in Inf Rgt 95, but didn't get anything from -Meiningen or -Coburg then)

ERL lists his last wartime command as Fusilier Regiment 36, retired as char. Generalmajor and alive 1926.

He did NOT get a Hohenzollern with Swords, move up to a Crown 2nd with Swords, or get anything from Baden or Bavaria or anything else from Saxony during the war.

Sekondeleutnant 19.9.88
Premierleutnant 12.9.95 Q4q
Hauptmann 18.4.03 Nn
Major 18.10.09 K
Oberstleutnant 27.1.15 Kk
Oberst 18.12.17 J

He had been commissioned in Inf Rgt 55, and went from there to the Rifles Testing Commission. The wartime seniority lists show him not as in Inf Rgt 15 (May 1914), but in Inspectorate of Weapons with the Troops-- which may "explain" the always inexplicable Saxon War Effort Cross.

If Glenn is about, he will know what dates Baron Inn commanded Fusilier Rgt 36-- seems he may have spent more of the war checking rifle manufacturing-- though he ended up with SCHAUMBURG-Lippe's front line war cross!

The fullsize bar must be boombastic!!!

[Glenn2438]

Rick,

commanded Füsilier-Regiment Nr. 36 from 2nd August 1917 - 24 Feb 1918. Just survived the publication of the ERL - died on the 9th December 1926.

Glenn

Thanks Glenn! I'm still slogging through 1914 looking for ANY other "suspect." The one "problem" is that MAJORS usually got a COMMANDER grade Ernestine, not a Knight class.

Still seeking....

...and early afternoon Sunday 29th still no other suspects. Am feeling better about the Ernestine though, since I notice from Altenburg's awards (Baron Inn didn't get his from that branch), during the WAR, apparently from "award inflation" in peacetime, Knights 1st Class WERE given to Majors fairly commonly.

[WNickel]

Hi Rick,

he ribbon-bar of RickS is typical for a Major/Oberstleutnant l in the ministry of war or the general staff which has also sat the whole WW1 at his desk.

How you also know, the following medals can belong to it:

EK 2 1914,
Roter Adlerorden 4. Klasse mit Krone (Hauptmann-Major),
Kronenorden 3. Klasse (Oberstleutnant) oder 4. Klasse (Oberleutnant/Leutnant),
Offiziersdienstauszeichnung 25 Jahre(Hauptmann-Major), Centenarmedaille,
Sachsen Albrechtsorden Ritter 1. Klasse mit Krone (Hauptmann-Major - why at the first place of the civilian awards???),
Sachsen Kriegsverdienstkreuz,
Ernestinischer Hausorden Ritter 1. Klasse (Hauptmann) oder 2. Klasse (Oberleutnant/Leutnant),
Lippe war-merit cross, Lippe Ehrenkreuz 3. Klasse (Major-Hauptmann) oder 4. Klasse (Oberleutnant/Leutnant),
Bayern Militärverdienstorden 4. KLasse mit Krone (Major).

So only the Kronenorden 3. Klasse and the Bayern Militärverdienstorden 4. KLasse mit Krone
were the last awards which he got WW1 began und which could missing in Rangliste 1914.

Maybe he wears ribbons of his neck-crosses at his ribbon-bar in the 20-igern.......

Werner

[WNickel]

Heureka......

I think it's the ribbon bar from Major Dewall, IR 74, at last Kdr. 21. IBr - what's your opinion, Rick??????

Best regards

Werner

[WNickel]

He Ricks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've found the wearer of this damned nice ribbon-bar.....
and noone looks............
so RickS should sell it to me....

I think the Ricks are well sleeping..................
during I'm hard working.
Good morning

Werner

Werner, I think my Baron Inn is closer-- only the SEHO does not "match."

Hans von Dewall (1866-1923) had

1) all COMMANDER grade Lippe Orders, none left on the ribbon bar

2) he had the 1905 Lippe-Detmold "Thronanspruch" medal, not on here

3) He doesn't show up on the MWB rolls published by Michael Autengruber as having gotten a Prussian Crown 3rd Class, though he DID get the 2nd Class with Swords, gazetted 8.9.17. From what I know about naval awards of the 2nd Class with Swords, often those were made by rank when there had been NO 3rd Class.

So my guess misses one, but your Prime Suspect is off by three.


Not sleeping! Never sleeping! SHOVELING snow... in my sleep too!

[WNickel]

Hi Rick,

I can't opposite against the 1905 Lippe-Detmold "Thronanspruch" medal, but he isn't Commander of all Lippe orders, because the Leopoldorder had only a class for a ribbon bar.

He was an "old" major in the Rangliste 1914, had to be a Oberstleutnant before the war (and very likely the Kronenorden 3 class before Ausgust 1918 - Autengruber didn't list the 3. class of the Kronenorden 3. class).

1914 a Prinz zu Lippe was Kommandeur of IR 74, Oberstleutnant von Dewall, got the Schaumburg-Lippe war-merit-cross and got a Kommandant of the Truppenübungsplatz Munster - I think until summer 1917. From this time (1915/1916) is this ribbon bar. Later he got the Kronenorden 2. class, but bought no new ribbon-bar..

The Lippe-ribbon on this bar was not correct, but the ribbon of the Leopoldorder was very rare - especially the small one - and so he wear a other lippe-ribbon.

For me, it's clear.......

Werner

[stogieman]

...... the bar is here and will be delivered to Mr. Lundstrom for examination and further debate. I am enjoying the 2 research-moguls battling it out on this bar. Both sides have very valid points. The decision is still unclear to me, with 2 very good possibilities.

But Werner! A loyal Native Son (as von Dewall was) would NOT have been wearing the wrong ribbon for his home state's Order. Also, he had the grade of Leopold "mit Krone." That's why I said this wouldn't have been his ribbon bar-- Wearing the crowns of everything else he had crowns for, but NOT on his own native state's ribbon doesn't appeal to me as possible. Nor does leaving off his own native 1905 medal. Officers with "too much to wear" kept their OWN and left some of the "other stuff" off, na?

As for the Prussian Crown 3rd-- our hero Willi Geile HAS listed all Prussian awards to Prussian officers after the 1914 Rank List date in Michael Autengruber's Band I "Militär-Wochenblatt & Marineverordnungsblatt." That seems quite thorough for the last months of peace (much, much less so for during the war-- very random then). While NON-Prussian awards are also included, I can imagine that any backlog of those was more likely to have been held up and then ignored after the war started, but not for publishing the Kingdom's own awards to its own officers.