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F herder SA dagger
Old 11-10-2016, 01:14 PM   #1
Ottokoen
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Default F herder SA dagger

Hi I purchased this dagger on the e-stand and have since been informed that it is a parts dagger and not an original, opinions?

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Old 11-10-2016, 01:30 PM   #2
Br. James
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The hardwood grip does not appear to be original to this piece; it does not fit the crossguards the way an original grip should. Other than that, everything else that we can see appears to be original to this early piece.

Br. James
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Old 11-10-2016, 01:57 PM   #3
glock26
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Don't like that grip. Don't like the eagle or roundel either.

Is the upper crossguard plated? might just be the photos.

The rest looks good for an early SA from herder.

Who was the seller?


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Old 11-10-2016, 02:12 PM   #4
Victorman
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I sold this dagger in August here on WAF.

Today I got an angry message from the buyer that he does not like the dagger anymore, he now believes it is a parts dagger because the top fitting is the plated version (which was clearly shown in my sales pictures!). Over the years, I have seen several original SA's which are not textbook, showing some early and some later features.

Next the seller posts pictures here: clearly after having "played" with the piece...

See the condition how it was when bought 3 months ago: grip and blade fittings were perfect!

I cannot take back a dagger sold 3 months ago and which has been messed with.

Best regards,

Victorman
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Old 11-10-2016, 02:14 PM   #5
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Old 11-10-2016, 02:20 PM   #6
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That dagger had not been "played" with by me, it has been In a display cabinet since I purchased it from you! And now given the comments I was mislead and sold a parts dagger and not an original early one ad advertised by you.

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Old 11-10-2016, 02:28 PM   #7
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IMO none of the photos here are sufficient to prove anything about either of the crossguards/fittings on this piece. That said, the real question is whether the customer understood this piece to be completely original to the period -- late 1933/1934 SA. If I bought a piece with the understanding that it was original, and found out that it was a parts dagger when it arrived to me, you can bet that I would want my money back...and I'll bet you would, too!

As I said in my first posting on this thread, the look of the grip's fit to the crossguards is enough to put me off this piece.

Br. James
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Old 11-10-2016, 03:11 PM   #8
Ottokoen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Br. James View Post
IMO none of the photos here are sufficient to prove anything about either of the crossguards/fittings on this piece. That said, the real question is whether the customer understood this piece to be completely original to the period -- late 1933/1934 SA. If I bought a piece with the understanding that it was original, and found out that it was a parts dagger when it arrived to me, you can bet that I would want my money back...and I'll bet you would, too!

As I said in my first posting on this thread, the look of the grip's fit to the crossguards is enough to put me off this piece.

Br. James
I was sold this piece with the complete understanding that it was original, it was advertised by the seller as an original F Herder dagger, at rzm Price's. That was plainly false given the opinions surfacing here...

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Old 11-10-2016, 05:16 PM   #9
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This is the message that the buyer had sent me on August 12th, after receiving the dagger:

Received the dagger today, many thanks for a beautiful item, it has been a pleasure to deal with you (I wish all sellers could be as professional in their dealings).

3 months later, today, I received this threat: from the same person:

have started a discussion on the WAF on this, and if it turns out to be a parts dagger, that's fraud under EU law, the WAF rules are not applicable in the real world, If this dagger is not original and I am not refunded, I will pursue this through my Solicitor..

So I would strongly recommend everyone here to be very cautious in doing any business with this person.

Best regards,

Victorman
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Old 11-10-2016, 05:25 PM   #10
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You would strongly recommended not doing business with me...that's original given the fact that you have fraudulently sold me an item, that wasn't what you claimed it was, and my pm that you decided to make public was only sent after I requested a refund...

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Old 11-11-2016, 02:24 AM   #11
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Mr Ottokoen,

I NEVER offer any daggers that I believe are not completely original WWII period.

I NEVER buy or sell any parts of daggers, but only complete, original items.

The Herder SA that I sold you had (when I have sent it to you in August) great grip to guard and guard to blade fittings (as shown in the original advertising pictures). It also had perfectly matching patina on all parts of the grip and the scabbard. This cannot be achieved if a dagger is put together by parts as you are suggesting.

I ALWAYS do everything in order to keep my customers happy and am very flexible when it comes to return policy. But I react very badly to false accusations and threats like yours.

If -as you are stating- you do not respect and agree with the rules applied on this forum, than I believe it would be better not to buy any more items here.

Best regards,

Victorman
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Old 11-11-2016, 02:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Br. James View Post
The hardwood grip does not appear to be original to this piece; it does not fit the crossguards the way an original grip should. Other than that, everything else that we can see appears to be original to this early piece.

Br. James
1+

Also scabbard throat fittings with lower crossguard looks odd for early SA dagger.


Schlange

http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/album
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Old 11-11-2016, 08:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victorman View Post
Mr Ottokoen,

I NEVER offer any daggers that I believe are not completely original WWII period.

I NEVER buy or sell any parts of daggers, but only complete, original items.

The Herder SA that I sold you had (when I have sent it to you in August) great grip to guard and guard to blade fittings (as shown in the original advertising pictures). It also had perfectly matching patina on all parts of the grip and the scabbard. This cannot be achieved if a dagger is put together by parts as you are suggesting.

I ALWAYS do everything in order to keep my customers happy and am very flexible when it comes to return policy. But I react very badly to false accusations and threats like yours.

If -as you are stating- you do not respect and agree with the rules applied on this forum, than I believe it would be better not to buy any more items here.

Best regards,

Victorman
Are you saying so that everyone commentating here is wrong? The evidence against this dagger is mounting up. Look at this link for known makers and the units they supplied, the lower guard has the wrong unit! I should have done better research, and I should not have reacted so strongly, but this dagger has been put together, there is no other way of putting it I was sold a parts dagger, and patina can be faked, people do it everyday on multiple items...

" Herder, F ……………………………………..Nrh; Om; S; Sw"

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/sa-die...turers-249468/



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Old 11-11-2016, 11:32 AM   #14
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Oh, now the "gau" mark is wrong, because it is not found in a researcher's list?

In that case you will find lots of "bad" SA daggers...

Here is another "problematic" Herder.
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Old 11-11-2016, 12:20 PM   #15
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For the first Victorman is an very honorable man and dealer in my opinion. I bought from him he is always accessable and you can talk to him at every point of the transaction. He is the only one I know that offers a change of the purchased item just for not like the item, he is very accurate in his describtions.
The shown case has some thing I wouldn´t like first if I pruchase an item I check it when it arrives and if I have concerns I tell the seller directly not after 3 months 2nd if I look at the pictures from Treadstarter and Victorman I would say there is some diffrences in condition in this two pictures. In my opinion the dagger was unopened and now it was opened this explains why the fitting of the crossguards is not longer good but the fitting was good when you look at Victormans pictures.

I can not see a authenticy problem with this dagger and the researcher lists are not complete.
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