Military Honor Medal 1st class - Prussia

[collector5168]

Dear All,
I sincerely apologise if this topic has previously been discussed, but I am an infrequent visitor to the Imperial Militaria Forum, so please could someone help me find the appropriate link.

I remain confused by the differences and the ability to differentiate between the Prussian Military Honor Medal 1st class and the Military Merit Cross (or enlisted PLM - image attached).

Whilst I appreciate that the Military Honor Medal 1st class, should not have:
a silver content stamp, or makers mark, but it may have a flawed "T" in Verdienst and due to similar manufacturing processes, the two decorations are otherwise like 'identical twins' of the militaria World.

As I have been looking to add this elusive decoration (Military Honor Medal 1st class) to my collection for a few years (but I am reluctant to 'take the plunge' without first doing some fact finding), any advice or tips from forum members would be extremely welcome.
Kind regards,
Jeff

[Rangemaster]

Hello Jeff:

The photo that you show is of the Preußische Goldene Militär-Verdienst-Kreuz (Prussian Golden Military Merit Cross). This is not technically just a "Military Merit Cross".

Please see this excellent article regarding the Preußen Militär-Ehrenzeichen erster Klasse here: http://www.medalnet.net/Military_Honor_Medal.htm

As you can see there are genuine MEZ 1 pieces that are marked with a maker's mark. Good luck in your search. Be very cautious as there are excellent quality copies of the GMVK out there!

[saschaw]

Just to point this out, the awards actual name is "Militärverdienstkreuz" without "Goldenes" - as given on the document. The "Goldenes" is a (later?) inofficial addition. Prussia did just have this one "Military Merit cross" which was it's highest bravery award for other ranks, so the name just did it.

Regarding the Militär-Ehrenzeichen 1. Klasse (type 1864): they usually are maker marked, but not silver marked, as they were from silver apparentely. Only two official makers are known: Emil August Wagner ("A.W.") for older crosses, and Joh. Wagner & Sohn ("W") for younger ones. They were awarded mainly in the wars of 1864 and 1866, and for the coloniel conflicts. None for WW1, however this is sometimes claimed. Thus, the MEZ1 is even rarer than the WW1 era silver-gilt MVK, which was the higher award. The rarest, of course, is the pre-1916 MVK in gold with about some dozends ever awarded.

Check my site (Katalog and Archiv) for each one MEZ1 by Emil August Wagner.

[collector5168]

Thank you both for your helpful advice, I am most grateful.

I visited the referenced website and spotted the cased award
you mentioned. I was wondering if the item has ever been discussed
on this forum, and if it hasn't would you be happy to accommodate
this request?
Thanks again,
Jeff

[Rangemaster]

"Just to point this out, the awards actual name is "Militärverdienstkreuz" without "Goldenes" - as given on the document. The "Goldenes" is a (later?) inofficial addition. Prussia did just have this one "Military Merit cross" which was it's highest bravery award for other ranks, so the name just did it."

Hello again:

Sascha is 100% correct! I had forgotten that the "Golden" name addition became the fashion long after WWI and was never an official name for the award during the period that it was awarded.

Jeff:

Which cased item in particular would you like comment on?

[saschaw]

Jeff, you're probably referring to the cased MEZ1? From what I know, it hasn't ben discussed here by now, but: feel free to discuss any of my items. You may use the pictures, of course.

[collector5168]

Thanks once again to you both and to Sascha for allowing me to upload photos from his website.

The item I had spotted in shown. Opinions would be welcomed.
Thanks,
Jeff

[collector5168]

The case.

[saschaw]

Noone wants to comment on this/my MEZ? So it's me to throw the first stone...

I know it does looks bad and might be considered as a cast fake from the pictures. It was discussed controversial even by people who had it in hand, and three German dealers - whose knowledge and opinions I actually appreciate - claimed it to be a fake, too. Some others, includig some experienced Prussia collectors and even a MEZ specialized collector, have no doubt it is a real, but very worn (and over-worked!) MEZ by Emil August Wagner, from the unification wars in the 1860s.

It's been sold in the meantime anyway, so I'm not here to advertise it.

[Don D.]

Some how I missed this thread. I can only say it is not of the accepted Wagner production so I have nothing to compare it to. Since it is outside the era that I collect I would not own it. That doesn't mean it is bad (or good) just that it does not fit my area of expertise/interest. An in hand inspection may give one a better feel for it though.

[saschaw]

Thanks Don!

Originally Posted by Don D.

I can only say it is not of the accepted Wagner production (...)

It is from Emil August Wagner. What "accepted Wagner production" are you referring to?

[Don D.]

Originally Posted by saschaw

Thanks Don!


It is from Emil August Wagner. What "accepted Wagner production" are you referring to?

Ones like this which I believe we are more used to seeing:

[saschaw]

Thanks Don. Different award, different era, different maker.

Your textbook MVK is late WW1 made by Joh. Wagner & Sohn, while my MEZ1 is from the 1860s and by Emil August Wagner.

As these two firms did co-exist ("my" Wagner became Sy & Wagner later) and not develop one from each other, they had different tools for their awards, so cannot be compared one to one.

"Your" Joh. Wagner & Sohn made the MEZ1, too, for the colonial wars. Those are probably from the same tool as the WW1 MVKs, however don't yet show the tool damage e. g. on the T.

[Don D.]

Thanks for clearing that up. So many Wagners and so many Godets to keep track of.