*** 'early' pionier spade cover and belt loop ***

[corporalSteiner]

i believe these covers are the same as first world war model, and were produced for the reichswehr and pre-war wehrmacht until 'replaced' by full leather cover, much discussed on waf. although these 'must' have been used in ww2 too. supple black leather in undamaged condition, alum closure studs and alum 'd-ring' leather belt hanger (found attached). unmarked.

[MP44_tom]

Luke:

yes, these were used in wwII.. I have the same which I posted a long time ago...

together with this picture



Tom
www.mp44.nl

btw, your pictures are very big !!! makes it difficult to take a look at the piece !

[corporalSteiner]

Originally Posted by MP44_tom

Luke:

yes, these were used in wwII.. I have the same which I posted a long time ago...

together with this picture



Tom
www.mp44.nl

btw, your pictures are very big !!! makes it difficult to take a look at the piece !

yes i remember that revealing pic. good to see again. yes, pics are huge-ok for an ipod...ill see what i can do.

[corporalSteiner]

more pictures of the cover, naked.

[corporalSteiner]

again

[PANZERPIONIERE]

This is real nice!
I have always wanted to find one.
Steve

[Chip M]

I know of three basic types of covers used during the WWI period, with some variation within the basic types. At the war's outbreak the pioneer long handled spade was part of the "Schanzzeug 96", also known as the "großes Schanzzeug", which included all the larger special work tools of the pioneers and railway troops (spade, hand axe, wire cutters, pickaxe, pick, long handled axe, etc.). The carrier for the spade at that time was a full leather cover with two buckled flaps on either side of the spade handle and a metal clip on the reverse for attaching the carrier to a ring on the side of the backpack. For use when the spade was carried without the backpack, a leather belt loop with a metal clip ring was provided (Schutzleder).

At some point during the war (I have only seen 1918 dated examples) the leather shortage in Germany necessitated a skeletalized version of the carrier to be produced, thus conserving the amount of leather used. By this time, the carrier flaps were also being produced with eyelets that were punched into the flap and secured by pressing the flaps down over a metal stud that was riveted into the face of the carrier. Another closure variation was one with leather strap extending from each flap. The straps had an eyelet (i.e. hole) which was pressed onto a similar ball-top stud as described in the previous method. All three closure patterns appear to have existed simultaneously.

Another wartime pattern of the carrier was fashioned from heavy canvas. It had several variations, depending on whether any leather was used in its manufacture. Some had a leather strip sewn into the outside seam as reinforcing measure. Some examples had canvas on the top and leather on the bottom. Most had leather strip, press stud type closures and some types utilized no leather at all.

Of course, no aluminum was used in their manufacture and I have yet to see a WWI dated example that used rivets in the assembly of the carrier.

Chip

[corporalSteiner]

better pics now

[PANZERPIONIERE]

Thank you for the additional pictures!
I really have to find one of these.
Chip, again, thanks for the information!
Steve

[corporalSteiner]

Originally Posted by PANZERPIONIERE

Thank you for the additional pictures!
I really have to find one of these.
Chip, again, thanks for the information!
Steve

you're welcome, steve. it was an camera picture apsect ratio /size mistake. fixed now (aspect ratio 4:3 pic size 1M if anyone's interested.)

[corporalSteiner]

Originally Posted by Chip M

I know of three basic types of covers used during the WWI period, with some variation within the basic types. At the war's outbreak the pioneer long handled spade was part of the "Schanzzeug 96", also known as the "großes Schanzzeug", which included all the larger special work tools of the pioneers and railway troops (spade, hand axe, wire cutters, pickaxe, pick, long handled axe, etc.). The carrier for the spade at that time was a full leather cover with two buckled flaps on either side of the spade handle and a metal clip on the reverse for attaching the carrier to a ring on the side of the backpack. For use when the spade was carried without the backpack, a leather belt loop with a metal clip ring was provided (Schutzleder).

At some point during the war (I have only seen 1918 dated examples) the leather shortage in Germany necessitated a skeletalized version of the carrier to be produced, thus conserving the amount of leather used. By this time, the carrier flaps were also being produced with eyelets that were punched into the flap and secured by pressing the flaps down over a metal stud that was riveted into the face of the carrier. Another closure variation was one with leather strap extending from each flap. The straps had an eyelet (i.e. hole) which was pressed onto a similar ball-top stud as described in the previous method. All three closure patterns appear to have existed simultaneously.

Another wartime pattern of the carrier was fashioned from heavy canvas. It had several variations, depending on whether any leather was used in its manufacture. Some had a leather strip sewn into the outside seam as reinforcing measure. Some examples had canvas on the top and leather on the bottom. Most had leather strip, press stud type closures and some types utilized no leather at all.

Of course, no aluminum was used in their manufacture and I have yet to see a WWI dated example that used rivets in the assembly of the carrier.

Chip

superb info, chip. thanks.
funnily enough most of the ww1 design progression you list was similar to ww2, as far as i know. seems then early ww2 the skeletal, riveted, then leather full body, three flap, sewn, lastly canvas, two flaps, sewn...the last one as i have mentioned, was offered for sale at rainy la gleize two years ago. a beauty it was. wonder if it was as wet this weekend as it usually is in that dreamy spot....

[Rheinmetall]

Here's a variation I have that I've always wondered the origin. Does anyone have any information on this type, or even an assumption?