Gold Party Badge matched set

[der-hase-fee]

Now on E-stand !!!

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=600374

[JoeW]

Wow, $$$$$$! I wonder what the price would have been if someone had helped him find the owner? Certainly worth a %.

[Jon Fish]

Prob just the starting price,it will need a correction beofre they sell IMO. Seems to be 2-3000€ for a set these days.
This is a lovely pair of badges though...

[sans probleme]

outstandingggggg
mint and unissued
best
TEDDY

[JoeW]

Originally Posted by sans probleme

outstandingggggg
mint and unissued
best
TEDDY

Interesting question. Can a pair of numbered GP badges ever be considered "unissued". In my view, an order is placed and the badges are numbered. Unless someone can prove they were never delivered, I would have to presume them to be issued to the recipient. Perhaps they were never worn, in which case they can be considered mint and unused.

[Br. James]

I agree with Joe. As I understand the process, each set of GPBs was created to order, and this is surely obvious when one considers that less than 23% of the first 100,000 NSDAP members actually received their badges -- whether this was because the member dropped out by failing to pay his/her dues, he/she died, or he/she never applied for the GPB in the first place. Having said that, we also know that some of those members who did apply for and receive their badges were not members of any uniform organization(s) and therefore had no opportunity to wear the large Deschler badge they received with their initial set. Such matched sets occasionally turn up with the large badge in virtually mint condition while the small badge shows signs of wear...or has even been replaced by a Fuess-marked badge. (This assumes that the original sets consisted of two Deschler badges and that Fuess-marked badges were only issued as replacements or additional badges.)

Br. James

[sjl]

True - GPBs were numbered as issued, so there were no "unissued" ones (I've seen exactly 2 blank unnumbered ones in 35 years). As Br James says, one could stay in the box permanently if the recipient was always / never in uniform, or if it was an extra or replacement. The biggest set I've seen was 6 badges - 3 big & 3 small.

There seem to be more small Fuesses out there than small Deschlers. It seems they were most often issued 1 big Deschler and 1 small Fuess, so the set was put together by Schwarz's office and not the factory. Why, no one knows.

Stephen

[juoneen]

Just a foot note :I saw an unusual photo of adolph recently in an early berghoff propaganda book pre war(I saw for sale), and he was wearing a GPB 25mm civilian badge. I've never seen that before, where hitler was ever seen wearing the smaller badge, so he must have had both . Maybe someone here has , but that was a first for me.

[JoeW]

I don't recall seeing AH wearing a small version of the GPB, but we know he had both as indicated in the Kanzlei letter to RL Schwarz mentioned in this thread.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...er#post4709932

[Br. James]

I agree with Stephen that there seems to be more Fuess-marked badges 'out there' than small Deschlers; perhaps the pin on the small Deschler was insufficiently adhered to the badge and needed to be replaced more often? I have never quite understood how the Fuess-marked badge got into the distribution mix; it has never seemed logical to me that Schwarz' office would go to the trouble of ordering large and small GPBs from different makers and then have to match them up to make a complete set prior to sending them out the the relevant Gauleitung offices. It has always made more sense to me to think that the original order was normally filled with a matched pair of Deschler badges and, when a replacement of a small badge or when an additional one was requested, that was when a Fuess-marked badge was ordered and sent out from Munich. That would also account for matched pairs of GPBs existing with a large Deschler and a small Fuess -- meaning that the original small Deschler would have either been discarded or kept in a jewelry drawer at home as an unwearable souvenir. Just my thoughts, of course!

Br. James

[ErichS]

It's also interesting that when you run into a fake 24mm GPB, it's always a Fuess. You almost never see a fake Deschler 24mm GPB.

[der-hase-fee]

Originally Posted by Jon Fish

Prob just the starting price,it will need a correction beofre they sell IMO. Seems to be 2-3000€ for a set these days.
This is a lovely pair of badges though...

HowardC is welcoming offers now.

[JoeW]

Originally Posted by JoeW

I don't recall seeing AH wearing a small version of the GPB, but we know he had both as indicated in the Kanzlei letter to RL Schwarz mentioned in this thread.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...er#post4709932

You know, I just realized what the implication of what I related from the Kanzlei letter referenced above. On order for six pair of GPBs for AH from Fuess was cancelled. That would indicate that Fuess as a jeweler provided the 30mm badge.

[Br. James]

I see what you mean, Joe, though we don't have several important details surrounding the letter you described:

"I am looking at a copy from NARA of a letter dated April 5, 1937 from the Fuehrer's Kanzlei informing Reichsschatzmeiter Schwarz that an order with the Firm Jos. Fuess in Munich made by Frau Winter for 6 pair of GPBs had been cancelled. Is this sufficient evidence that Fuess remained in business after he gave his interview in 1935 and that GPBs were procured from his firm?"

* This letter from Philipp Bouhler's Office to FX Schwarz' Office provides second-hand information; it relates that Anni Winter ordered GPBs directly from the Fuess firm and that that order has since been cancelled. Assumedly Winter would only have placed such an order in the way she did -- directly with a manufacturer instead of going through the Party Treasurer's Office -- at the request of Hitler himself. She probably had no idea how to do such things according to proper procedures and just went ahead and wrote to the Fuess firm as Hitler instructed her to do. (Hitler had no compunction about going outside of the 'rules' when it was something he wanted.)

* Not producing the large GPB, the Fuess firm could not have filled such an order directly -- six pairs of GPBs -- so they may have responded to Winter that she needed to go through the Treasurer's Office in order to secure the sets. Upon receiving that news, Winter must have either spoken with Hitler directly or knew enough to speak with Bouhler, since this was a matter that the Führer's Personal Chancellery should have handled in the first place, and Bouhler would have then straightened it out with Schwarz.

I don't think we have enough evidence in this one letter from Bouhler's Office to Schwarz' Office that would lead to the conclusion that Fuess made the 30mm GPB. But it does make for interesting and challenging thinking! Thanks for this opportunity, Joe!

Br. James

[Br. James]

Dear friends,

Here are two not-unrelated questions -- at least to me they're not unrelated:

* Do we actually know which firm created the Blood Order, either the First or Second Issue but particularly the Fuess-marked First Issue?

* Did Josef Fuess' firm actually produce any other type of badges or Party jewelry? I don't just mean whether Fuess held any RZM or LDO licenses, but did his firm actually turn out any medals, badges or the like in bulk?

Obviously I'm trying to get a handle on whether Fuess was basically a jewelry and logo designer and a creator of small and unique pieces, as he seems to be referred to in both "Mein Kampf" and in Mark Woods' recent book, or if his firm actually turned out thousands of badges and related items for the NSDAP. If Fuess' firm didn't actually turn out the BO that bore his name and no other manufacturer's name, then it would seem likely that his firm also didn't produce the Fuess-marked small GPB either.

Conversely, as I understand it, the firm of Wilhelm Deumer was the only manufacturer of the very rare German Order, and that medal included an even smaller version of the small Fuess-designed GPB as a centerpiece. Since no other version of the GPB was ever produced, is it likely that Deumer was the manufacturer of the Fuess-marked GPB and also perhaps the BO?

If I am retracing an old conversation, please forgive me, and thanks for your input.

Br. James