S&L made RK's for the "collector Market"

[Tom B]

Hi Guy's ! Another question from me ! Sorry for so many ! The S&L made Knights Crosses that are considered New and for the collector market (the 800 marked, sandblasted looking frame etc.) I have always wondered WHY S&L made no effort to Polish the frames?? I have often wondered if it was just a money saving step ?? They certainly would look so much better if they had ! When you also take into account the "Bad" paint job also, could it have saved "that" much money to go the extra mile ! Many Thanks, Tom

[Nigel N]

Hi Tom!
Good question!!!
I can only guess that they did save money doing it that way?? I have seen one of the sandblasted RK's, and it would need a silver coating, seperately applied i reckon to get a shiney frame, thats one part of the process they skimped on, so a saving there! Then theres the sloppy paint job, they used to paint the cores before they assembled the cross, then they changed to painting after assembly, meaning that paint often caught the beading, but that still does'nt explain why the paint on older crosses is usually smooth and even, while on late ones its.......terrible!!! Must have completly changed the painting technique, again i guess to make more savings??
So if you add up those savings over thousands of RK's, i suppose it would save quite a few bucks!!
-Nigel

[Tom B]

Nigel, I wonder how many Knight's Cross winners ordered and wore these types ? I would think there had to be some don't you think ? Have you ever seen provenance with this type ? Since the frame is 800 silver why is it thats it's not glossy at all ? And I agree painting after assembly is stange to me !! Is S&L still making these today ??? Thanks Nigel, Tom

[Nigel N]

Hi Tom!!
I guess its possible that a vet might have one of these, but i reckon most of them would have bought their replacement RK's way back in the late 50's/ early 60's, to be honest, i dont think a vet would be very impressed with these late pieces? Maybe Mathijs, our resident RK guy can say if he's seen any late RK's that were vet attributed??
The 800 silver sandblasted frames always puzzled me, i dont think that S&L would have marked them 800 if they were'nt, but i've never seen any silver jewellery etc. that was 800 marked that looked as poor as those RK frames!!
-Nigel (shades not needed for these frames!)

[Tom B]

I agree with you Nigel. Lets wait & see what Mathijs can add to all this. Such fine work for many years by S&L, it's hard to believe they would put thier approval on these late ones at all ! I'm curious about any Vet Attributed ones. Thanks Nigel, Tom

[Hagen]

Great topic!!

[Mike Yokum]

Hi gents,

Tom, I always enjoy reading your posts. Your questions are excellent and get to the heart of some good topics.

I can only agree with what you and Nigel have already said. I'm certain it was purely a cost savings measure. I'm sure the skilled employees needed to create the early quality were expensive and then there is the material. The late made crosses were simply made of inexpensive, low quality stuff. Without the national pride driving them and a collector market willing to buy the low quality pieces, it was probably not a difficult decision. Too bad really, but the nature of business.

Again, great question! I appreciate your posts!

[Tom B]

Hi Mike ! You know I just can't figure out WHY S&L even bothered to use 800 silver in this type ?? It's the only material with "worth" in the production of these. Maybe they thought they "Had" to give these crosses "Something" of the "Old Days" to help them sell at all ?? I wish we had a contact within S&L Company to help answer these type questions ! It's the thing that drives true collectors NUTS !! Thanks Mike, Tom

[Mike Yokum]

Hi Tom,

I've often said the very same thing. A current or former S&L employee could sure remove our speculation.

It's tough to say why they used 800 silver if indeed they did. I've never owned or handled one so I couldn't test the silver content. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but as you state, it makes no rational sense given the rest of the material and workmanship.

[Nigel N]

I dont know if one of these late 800 frames has ever been actually tested for silver content?? I do know a few people have tried contacting S&L about their 57 production, but they were very reluctant to talk about it at all!!!
-Nigel

[Hagen]

If these later cross's are just made mainly for the collectors market and are of lower quality is there really value in these to the collecter? I guess what I'm asking would any of you collect these pieces? And what would the value of one of these cross's be?

[Nigel N]

Dont think most 57 collectors would buy them, as most collectors like the early, quality pieces that can be linked to veterans!!
As i collect EK's, i guess i could say, to complete my collection, i needed some later pieces, so i had every variant that S&L made???
It depends which way you see things i suppose, but i would'nt pay very much for any later pieces??
-Nigel

[Hagen]

Originally Posted by knockoffnigel

i would'nt pay very much for any later pieces??
-Nigel

Pretty much what I thought!

[Mike Yokum]

Hi Mike,

There's a huge difference between the average collector market and us hard core 57er, Rat Pack boys. This collecting field really didn't exist until a few years ago when Peter Wiking kicked things off here on the WAF.

I'm sure a few collected these pieces prior to that, but not many. Now, its a solid collecting field with serious enthusiasts and an ever broader interest. We're growing in numbers rapidly and that's exciting to me.

[Tom B]

Hello guy's ! Like I said in another thread, my first 57 piece I purchased in 1973. My Rk KvK w/swords. At this years SOS, a dealer (nice guy) john Winters from the Netherlands had 4 or 5 new type KC's. His asking price was $175.00 with ribbon (no case) ! I thought it was too high, but at the end of the show he had sold all but one of them ! He told me several years ago that he had a friend who had worked at S&L and that where he got all the 57 items he sells all the time. Does S&L still make 57 items ??? He told me that they had qui t making them about 10 years ago. Is this a fact???? Thanks for all the feedback ! Tom