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Bundesrepublik Deutschland, 1949-Present From West Germany through to the modern reunified German Republic.

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Old 05-09-2009, 03:59 AM   #61
Furor Teutonicu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acmer View Post
Do all aufklärer today have the black beret and the Heeresaufklärer badge in it? Fernspäher had the maroon beret and their own badge, but they were merged into PzAufkl to form a Heeresaufklärungstruppe.

If one goes to Fernspählehrkompanie, where will he go next?

I'm trying to figure out the line of arm shields a "Fernspäher" might have during his career.

Maroon berets. Panzerafklärungstruppe/Feldnachrichtentruppe wear black, and have a different beret badge.

Panzeraufklärungstruppe have the crosse cavalery lances with a Luchs....well that is the closest I can think of it being, in the center. The Fernspähtruppe have the lances, but with a diving eagle carrying lightning bolts.

As to arm badges. There is no "magik" to them. You shove on your arm that for whatever troop you are attached to.

Qualification badges are a different matter.

Fallschirmjäger Tätigkeitsabzeichen is possible, or may be even probable, and they can/will be attached to, but not part of, the Fallschimjäger. Similar goes for artillery and Jägertruppe. Fernmelder Tätigkeitsabzeichen, and ABC Abwehrtruppe.

It must also be not forgoten that in battle, OFFICIALY all unit patches are removed. They have made that easier by introducing the "velcro" patches.

Quote:
If one goes to Fernspählehrkompanie, where will he go next?
I do not understand the question. Why should he go anywhere "next"? The only way is up. Ie promotion within the troop, to the training school as instructor, or flying a desk in some out of the way barracks where there are not too many officers around.

One unit that Fernspäh troops are particularly qualified for is KSK. But since 01/04/97, all except one Fernspäh company are merged into the KSK any way.



The fighting units are divided into four commando companies of about 100 men each and the special commando company with veteran members, taking supporting tasks. Each of the four commando companies has five specialized platoons:
1st platoon: land insertions
2nd platoon: airborne operations
3rd platoon: amphibious operations
4th platoon: operations in special geographic or meteorological surroundings (e.g. mountains or polar regions)
5th platoon: reconnaissance, sniper and counter-sniper operations
Command Platoon

There are four commando squads in every platoon. Each of these groups consists of about four equally skilled soldiers. One of each group is specially trained as a weapons expert, medic, combat engineer or communications expert respectively. Additionally a group can contain other specialists, e.g. heavy weapons or language experts.
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Old 05-09-2009, 08:41 AM   #62
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Hi Furor Teutonicu,

are you not able to open the links in Post 56 and to read the German text in these German publications, written by Germans?

Please try it once more:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milit%C3%A4rgeschichte

"(Die Bundesmarine hat allerdings ihre Geschwader an die Bundesluftwaffe übergeben.)"

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fenbrode

"Neben der Bundesmarine unterhielt auch die Bundesluftwaffe eine Einrichtung in Großenbrode."

These are only two examples.

Uwe
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Old 05-09-2009, 08:57 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by speedytop View Post
Hi Furor Teutonicu,

are you not able to open the links in Post 56 and to read the German text in these German publications, written by Germans?

Please try it once more:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milit%C3%A4rgeschichte

"(Die Bundesmarine hat allerdings ihre Geschwader an die Bundesluftwaffe übergeben.)"

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fenbrode

"Neben der Bundesmarine unterhielt auch die Bundesluftwaffe eine Einrichtung in Großenbrode."

These are only two examples.

Uwe
No. Wikipedia is not reliable. You may have written that yourself ten minutes ago.

FORGET Wiki.

I can assure you, as a member of the Bundewehr my self, and having spoken form everyone from the Bundesminesterium to my Stabsoberbootsman, my Grandfather to a guy in the pub NO ONE would DREAM , or has HEARD of it EVER being called "Bundesluftwaffe"

LUFTWAFFE, pure and simple. "Bundeswehr Luftwaffe" may be, but...

Bundesluftwaffe does NOT, even on official documents (see "Der Reibert" among others), exist as a name).
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Old 05-09-2009, 09:19 AM   #64
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Hello Mr. Furor Teutonicu,

do you live in a parallel world? Maybe in another universe?

http://www.google.de/search?q=bundes...ient=firefox-a

Okay, today only 13,300 hits, maybe 13,290 without Wikipedia.

About Wikipedia:
"You may have written that yourself ten minutes ago."



And I have written all the 13,300 articles in the last five minutes!




I must say, my problems are not resolved.

Uwe
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:53 AM   #65
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Speedy Top and Furor Teutonicus:

Thanks for contributing to the lively debate that WAF forums are famous for.

Gordon and I are planning a poll that will allow all our forum contributors to vote on the terminology that they feel most comfortable with and that generally conforms to accepted norms.

Until that time, I would ask you both to refrain from further discussion on the terminology issue. Please stay focused on the topic of Verbandabzeichen. Gordon, Ralph and I greatly value the insights that both of you have offered so far. Thanks for shedding more light on this poorly understood subject area.

Sincerely,
TJ
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:44 PM   #66
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What a great thread, I stumbled upon it after my normal daily check of the WAF DDR forum. I collected Bund patches and insignia briefly in the mid 1980s while in Berlin and Hanau. But ended up focusing on DDR. Below are the Bund patches that I accumulated while in Germany. I've always assume that most of these were relatively common. Would appreciate any comments.







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Old 05-13-2009, 12:10 AM   #67
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I've always assume that most of these were relatively common. Would appreciate any comments.
WERE common. Depends on whether the unit, Group, or whatever has been disbanded, mothballed, or amalgamated into others.

"17 Juni" Flöhmarkt, and you will get most of them if not all over a period of about two months. (So 8 weekly markets), and various on line sites you will find them all.

That is NOT the same as seeing them in use. On actual uniforms it depends on what area you are.

The German/French and German/Dutch brigades yoou do NOT see many of in Berlin. But we see Potsdam, Brandenburg, Sachsen and Sachsen-Anhalt regularly. And of course, Wachbattailon by the ton.

The Golden Lion on the blue back ground. I HAVE seen it but for the life of me can not remember which unit it is. Any idea?
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:05 AM   #68
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Kevin.

A very nice colletion of Verbandsabzeichen. Availability varies for these badges depending on where you reside. As is mentioned above, most are plentiful in Germany but as with any collectible a time will come when they are less available. I haven't seen a lot of them for sale in the U.S. or Canada.

Furor Teutonicu,

The bluse shiled with the gold lion was for 5th Panzerdivision. One of the disbanded units. Here is one I beleive I have posted before on a BW tunic. I agree that they look better on a tunic than off but that is just my personal opinion.

Regards,

Gordon
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:20 AM   #69
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Furor Teutonicu/Gordon - Thanks for your comments. I'm quite familiar with the "17 Juni" Flöhmarkt having been a frequent visitor there in the late 80s. I couldn't resist visiting it again 2 summers ago when I was in Berlin on vacation. Wow, the Bundeswehr is in Berlin, unimaginable when I was stationed there. I picked up most of my Verbandsabzeichen at a montly US military show at McNair Kaserne in Höchst just west of Frankfurt. I'd take the duty train down from Berlin once a month to attend.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:01 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Craig View Post
The bluse shiled with the gold lion was for 5th Panzerdivision. One of the disbanded units. Here is one I beleive I have posted before on a BW tunic. I agree that they look better on a tunic than off but that is just my personal opinion.
Quite agree. A very nice looking patch.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:23 PM   #71
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Hi,

Furor Teutonicu:
"The Golden Lion on the blue back ground. I HAVE seen it but for the life of me can not remember which unit it is"

The golden lion on the blue background is the 5th Panzerdivision, but the unit badge in Post 66, fifth row in the middle, is Panzergrenadierbrigade 13.

Please see the different border colours on the 4 unit badges for the 1st Panzerdivision and the 3 brigades, seventh and eights row (white horse on a red shield on yellow-white background:

- 1. Panzerdivision: border black and white (silver and white)
- Panzergrenadierbrigade 1: border white
- Panzerbrigade 2: border red
- Panzergrigade 3: border yellow

In German the colours for the brigades are weiss rot gelb, and the soldiers had a mnemonic "wir rauchen gerne"

Regards
Uwe
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:35 AM   #72
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The one on the uniform has a much deeper blue. Which I find looks better. Whether that is to do with over exposure in the Collection badges, or whether it is because of the different border I do not know. I must try and find an example in the museum.
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Old 05-23-2009, 07:12 PM   #73
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Here are some "sports patches" from the Airborne community.

Top left: Fallschirmjaeger Bataillon 261; Top right: 253rd Airborne BN

Middle left: 254th Airborne BN; Middle right: 252nd Airborn BN

Bottom left: 3rd Company, Fallschirmjaeger Btl 251; Bottom right: 5th Company Fallschirmjaeger Btl 251

T.J.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:42 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acmer View Post
Does anyone know any more verbandsabzeichen related to Fernspäher / Heeresaufklärer? The relations I have found:

Heeresamt, which includes Ausbildungszentrum Spezielle Operationen

FSK 100 (disbanded)


FS(L)K 200, which is part of DSO


FSK 300 (disbanded)


Active unit badges
Abzeichen aktiver Verbände

Do all aufklärer today have the black beret and the Heeresaufklärer badge in it? Fernspäher had the maroon beret and their own badge, but they were merged into PzAufkl to form a Heeresaufklärungstruppe.

If one goes to Fernspählehrkompanie, where will he go next?

I'm trying to figure out the line of arm shields a "Fernspäher" might have during his career.
Nice link ^^ I always found interesting the dominant yet subtle Prussian influence the bundeswehr always attempts to utilize in one way or another such as the prussian eagle appearing on several patches in the heer and even in the marine like:
-PzAufklLehrKp 90, Munster
- Marine gruppe Tender Rhein
Just to list a few.

Marine gruppe Tender Rhein:

Does anyone else know of any other "prussianized/traditional" patches in the bundeswehr?
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:48 PM   #75
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Team - This offering of embroidered beret badges appeared on Manion's Auction Site recently.

I know the patch on the bottom left is a "fantasy" emblem, but what about the "Iron Cross" and Bavarian themed patches on the bottom right?

Axel - I never realized that the Prussian Eagle was used in designing BW patches, very interesting indeed.

All the best - TJ
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Last edited by Thomas J. Cullinane Jr.; 11-13-2009 at 04:50 PM. Reason: typo
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