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White Panzer Sets
Old 10-01-2003, 07:36 AM   #1
J Melvin
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Default White Panzer Sets

I am looking for info on the HBT summer panzer uniform sets, but not in reed green, but the drillich oatmeal/white. Does anyone have any info on them or photos of their wear? Thanks.
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Old 10-01-2003, 06:10 PM   #2
Akira Takiguchi
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Telling colors from a B/W photo is difficult, but this one is close. Not white, but very pale color.

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Old 10-01-2003, 07:55 PM   #3
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Akira, thanks very much. I think that is the white/oatmeal one. Also pretty late as they are wearing M43 caps.
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Old 10-01-2003, 08:10 PM   #4
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I have ever only seen one for sale...and I was unsure of it....it was from a very lonstanding collection, so I concluded it was OK...just too obtuse for me.
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Old 10-01-2003, 08:57 PM   #5
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A fellow is supposedly bringing me a vet acquired one this weekend to take a look at. Straight out of store. Unissued. I'll be interested to see it. Both the wrap and trousers.
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Old 10-05-2003, 10:25 AM   #6
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Ok, here it is in multiple photos (sorry for the long download that may occur). But, I'd like to hear opinions on the insignia and the wrap itself. I'm comfortable with the material as being the type HBT used by the Germans. But, if there are construction flaws, please chime in.











Let it begin!
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Old 10-05-2003, 10:26 AM   #7
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More









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Old 10-05-2003, 10:27 AM   #8
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Again







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Old 10-05-2003, 10:28 AM   #9
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Last Set





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Old 10-05-2003, 11:13 AM   #10
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Though I can't address the Luftwaffe HG Panzer angle to these uniforms, thought I would share a standard Luft drill uniform, if that provides any help. I was under the understanding that the Luftwaffe only used Drillich HBT uniforms in this color for training. I can provide photos from a FJ album of FJs training in the standard uniform, if that helps. I can say that the green HBT eagle on the jacket that Jack is showing looks original.

Here is a standard Luft drill tunic with the unique features of both a tan cotton twill backed eagle and the fact that it is set up for shoulder boards.

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Old 10-05-2003, 11:18 AM   #11
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The size markings and LBA stamp on the left inside of the jacket.
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Old 10-05-2003, 11:22 AM   #12
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And a closeup of the eagle. Textbook zig-zag stitching.
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Old 10-05-2003, 02:31 PM   #13
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Jack:
Once again I am offering words on something I have never seen enough examples of to state anything with any authority...but don't think many of us have...so this is raw opinion backed by no facts. I always feel better when I get these kinds of opinions

Bottom line is I am skeptical...but so are you.

It looks technically correct in terms of contsruction details.

I know the HBT fakers have all but mastered this on green ones.

It's all there, all together and nicely corresponding and coordinating...that cold be good or could be bad...but it is something I noticed that leaves me unsettled. If it were something I had seen many examples of - like black wraps or field gray HBTs, I might be able to turn that feeling definitely one way or the other.

From the pictures, I think it may not look 60 years old. I would anticipate seeing yellowing or some discoloration to the white parts...the webed belt looks particularly clean....through storage.

The markings are a bit bold in both size and depth of ink. Again, my first impression was "so crisp and new-looking"....and so similar between pants and tunic. Not sure why that strikes me as odd, as this is almost one-of-a-kind in my 32 years of collecting. Being what it is, it would make more sense that the two pieces would remain together for 60 years, but as it all appears to be standard manufacture, would there not have been more than this one and if so, what would be the odds of the markings looking like they were made one right after the other?

I do not know anything about the Luftwaffe isnignia...they look authentic...again, the white piping is so white that it does not give an aged appearance. I have a set of (Heer? I believe) field gray, white-piped Totenkopf collar tabs. I have clear photographic evidence that these werre worn by members of the Führer Begleit units/FHQ...and they look old and are well in the ballpark of standard construction technique and dimensions (the ones you picture look a bit fat and squat...but within tolerance). The set I have (and I will try scan them tonight) do have an unusual grey silk-rayon backing to them that covers the reverse construction details. I also have a set on a black wrap (black underlay - white piping) where the white piping is a dirty white...in other words aged. The ones on what you picture would probably be given away - good or bad - by seeing the reverses. But, again, they look newly made, exhibiting no evidence (from photos) of six decades of wear and tear.

When I saw the only other example of such a white HBT I have ever seen, it was in the hands of George Petersen. I asked him what made him think it was authentic and he replied: " It looks right. It has been in a collection a long time and it is so scarce that probably no one could ever definitely confirm or deny it's existence."

I am just too skeptical...and I almost always err by finding some degree of photographic evidence of things in my collection. It is in any case a pretty obtuse piece of Panzer kit, but if you can afford the possibility of it some day being proven wrong...it's a cool addition.
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Old 10-05-2003, 03:25 PM   #14
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Scott and Willi, thanks for the replies. For whatever reason, digital cameras really don't do yellowed items justice. That is probably why I always think that HG peaked caps look new. The piping is always bright white. But, to give you a better idea of color as it relates to other issued HBT Luft items, I've attached this picture. Of the three, the wrap is actually the dingiest. But, it is unissued. This may give a better idea of color.

I'm happy with it. The insignia are good. The HBT is of the same weave as the two shown, and it's just plain sexy.
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Old 10-05-2003, 04:26 PM   #15
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Hi Jack, first of all I must admit that I have never seen a white HBT Pz jacke, never mind one to the HG Division
I too, like Scott, cannot fault it's construction or insignia. The RB and size numbers do look kind of "fresh" ( I see now why you were asking about RB numbers starting with 1 the other day )
Are you going to go for it?
Cheers, Ade.
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