"G" on Tiger IIs and other Tanks
 

There's a debate going on over at Missing-Lynx http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/...eid=1079988082 about what this marking meant, and with the idea that there may be some here who don't visit that forum, I want to raise it over here.

The marking we're talking about is a large letter G apparently painted on some vehicles. It appears primarily on Tiger IIs in the winter of 1944-45 (but also on Jagdpanther and some other vehicles), and usually on the glacis plate (but in one instance on the rear plate). Probably the most famous example is the tank shown below. This is headquarters tank 008 of schwere SS-PanzerAbteilung 501, part of Kampfgruppe Peiper, shown moving toward the front after leaving its pre-Ardennes assembly area on 16 Dec 44.

The most bandied-about theories are:

1. A marking for the march route the tank was supposed to take during the Ardennes Offensive. That doesn't really hold water because the G only appears on one s. SS-501 tank in the Ardennes, and s. SS-501 was supposed to use Rollbahn D as its route, and there wasn't a Rollbahn G anyway.

2. A marking designating the type of antifreeze/coolant to be used. The coolant "Glysantin" was used in some German engines, and some people feel that it wasn't supposed to be mixed with anything else, hence a warning marking. I think this is a more plausible explanation, but why wasn't it on every tank? And why would the marking be on the front of the tank, away from the engine compartment?

Any insights?

Regards,
Greg

G on tiger II
 

I'm a little disappointed no one has come up with an explaination for this, as I am very curious myself. I always assumed it had something to do with the HG(Hermann Goering) Division, but I guess that was a false assumption. Come on guys doesn't anyone know what it means? Please, its starting to bug me{help} .

Kevin

Maybe ?
 

In book "King Tiger"by osprey military- color plate E-it is numbered 003 blue outlined in yellow with black G painted in front...with ambush camouflage pattern..The third tiger II of the Stabskompanie (staff company) of s.SS Pz.Abt 501...this tiger was immoblised on road to Stavelot and set fire by crew..
book pictures more Tiger II from Ardennes and part of s.SS Pz.Abt 501 none others have painted G...
your G example of 008 would be another example of a tank belonging to 'Stabskompanie'...because of same numbering pattern and color used...
Somebody what exactly is Staff Company? if its important like it sounds I dont think they'd be using a experimental coolant-and G may identify tank as one in leadership role on battlefield....
add to mix in book "Panzer Truppen 2" page 197 for order of battle 16th December 1944 there was a 'Heeresgruppe G'-though Pieper was in 'Heeresgruppe B' and it seems 1.SS Pz.Div had the Tiger II's from the s.SS Pz.Abt 501

Greg,

I kind of fancy the 'Glysantin' solution. Really would have made sense if the coolant wasn't to be mixed with anything else.

Are there photos showing the rear of the same tank or another vehicle carrying the 'G' on the front? As I believe it should have been painted on both front and back of a 'Glysantin'-protected tank in case this truly was some kind of maintenance warning.

I'd expect there would have been some redundancy in marking to ensure this wouldn't be overlooked.

Until a documented evidence turns up, to me the Glysantin theory is just as persuading as "G" being a lucky symbol ("G" for "Glück") like a horseshoe...

I'll throw in my theory on this one. I believe it is associated with Kampfgruppen only. Namely, logistics designated certain armor or vehicles within a Company or Division as belonging to a Kampfgruppe and not the general TOE for the unit. The only way to validate this theory is to compare photos of other Kampfgruppe vehicles to see if they are similarly marked. It may have also just been a one time Ardennes deal since that operation relied heavily on these battlegroups punching through to Antwerp. Keeping those vehicles of the spearhead supplied was more pressing than the rest of the units.thumbsup

Hi Jeff,

The "King Tiger" book and some other earlier illustrations are in error in showing this number as 003; a close examination of the SS-Kriegsberichter film taken of this tank moving through Tondorf and photos after it was abandoned show the last digit to be an 8.

The Stabskompanie (Staff Company) included the three battalion headquarters tanks - for the battalion commander, his adjutant, and the battalion signals officer. In s. SS-Pz.Abt. 101 since its formation, and in its successor unit s. SS-Pz.Abt. 501, these three tanks were numbered 007, 008 and 009. In s. SS-Pz.Abt. 501 in the Ardennes 008 was the one abandoned by its crew on the road between Stavelot and Trois Ponts. 009 also evidently took part in the early part of the offensive anyway; it also appears in the SS-Kriegsberichter film from Tondorf. One of the headquarters tanks is shown driving past with the tank commander looking down at the photographer. This is usually said to be 008, but a comparison of the paint pattern beside the turret numbers shows that it's not the same as 008, so it must be 009. I have found no evidence that the battalion commander's 007 was used at all. I think s. SS-Pz.Abt. 102/502 used the 007-008-009 numbering as well.

Over on Missing-Lynx many people are looking at the Glysantin idea as a plausible explanation for the "G" marking. To me it's an idea that might be plausible; might even make more sense than any other idea that's been put out, but without some better evidence, I don't think the question has been answered.

Regards,
Greg

Im away from every reference, SS Major Gustav Knittel commanded in the Ardennes as well. Could these have been his armor spirited away due to shortages? 'G' is for Gustav?

I think my previous theory holds more water than this one. Rather than marking each vehicle 'KG' for Kampfgruppe Peiper or Hansen or Knittel, etc.etc. They simply marked them 'G' for expedience and to give them precedent in supply of ammo, fuel, and replacement parts.

Another thing I noted at the other thread, I dont buy testing Glysantin in armor during a major offensive such as 'Wacht Am Rhein' OKW made blunders but testing experimental coolant during the last chance on the Western Front seems out of line when command had the testing facilities within Germany. Further issuing said vehicles to your armor spearhead? Give them some due credit here.:banghead:

sSS PzAbt 102 used the numbers 001, 002 and 003.

Hi Greg, I always thought that the G was connected to the early Panzergruppe Guderian. And any vehicle that had served within, carried a painted G..?
I read this some time back, and for the life of me cannot remember where!
hope this is some added help
regards
jon

That is true for the campaign for France early war but not for late 44' spring '45.

I think that its an unit emblem!! All other theorys sound a little bit weird :eek:

There where lots of unit emblems that had the G, have a look:

http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/_dat...teremblems.htm

I allways thought it stand for "Guderian".

I remember reading something in one of my panzer history books about some general (I believe it was) having all his men paint "G's" on their tanks to denote that the unit was his. I will have to look this up and see what I can dig up. I can also ask a panzer Vet I know that lives near me if he can remember what it was for. He managed to survive the whole war fighting in a tank.

Can anyone provide a clear pic of the marking in question so that I can show it to him.

I'll see what he says.

-SHane

Again, yes Heinz Guderian did have his unit mark their tanks, trucks, and motorcycles with a large white letter 'G' during his operations in France and I think in Russia as well but the armor on this thread and the one link are for late '44 Battle of the Bulge. The Guderian marked vehicles were known as part of Panzergruppe Guderian, officially Panzergruppe 2. Guderian was also relieved of command twice during the war, for arguing with Hitler and for his testy relationship with Von Kluge and wasnt the only commander, Model also commanded at one time. I dont believe Model would stand for his unit running around with Guderian's left over tactical inisignia.

Your provided link discounts the other G marked units. One is an observation unit (Beobachter Abt.), two are Luftwaffe, and the others infantry. Even Panzergruppe II, which Heinz Guderian commanded only existed until 18 July 1944 and fought almost entirely on the Eastern Front/Balkans with the exception 1940 France.:dead:
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...erarmee2-R.htm

Given the lack of supplies in late 1944, it makes no sense to issue units with special tanks that have to be marked to recieve special engine coolant which may or may not be available by whatever supply unit has the issue.:nono:

While my ideas arent based on any documented fact I dont believe they are 'weird' at all. Especially in light of the objectives KG groups were given of pushing to Antwerp at all costs. These markings are also ad hoc...they dont appear on all vehicles, appear for one operation to date "Wacht Am Rhein" and appear to be done inconsistently, ie, either the front glacis plate or both the glacis plate and rear of vehicle but not inside the engine compartment or sides of the vehicles.

Hi Lloyd,

Knittel was commander of the LSSAH armored reconnaissance battalion in the Ardennes. He did "commandeer" two of the SS-501 Tiger IIs to work for him around Stavelot during the battle, but I don't think the G can stand for this.

To my mind, none of the ideas put forth explain why the G would only appear on one (or a few) tanks in a battalion. There are good photos of the fronts of 10 of the SS-501 tanks in the Ardennes, and only 008 has the G marking.

Regards,
Greg