LSSAH Panther Stoumont Ardennes December 19, 1944
 

Hey everyone!

I am just wondering about the possibility of identifying a Panther of LSSAH during the Ardennes. There are several pictures of it around Stoumont on December 19, 1944. I do not know if anyone has these books but the pictures can be found here:

-page 49 of Ardennes 1944 Peiper & Skorzeny by Jean Paul Pallud, this shows a close-up of the Panther Commander in the turret.

-page 50 of the same book shows a side/rear view of the same Panther.

-page 99 of The Leibstandarte Volume IV/2 shows the same Panther from the front going through Stoumont.

-Several Documentaries that I have seen on the History Channel and such have shown footage from the Ardennes (captured rolls of film from an SS War Photographer) and in this footage I have seen the same scenes as these photos.

I used to think that this Panther was #221 but I do not believe so now. #221 was a Steel Wheel version and this Panther does not look like a Steel Wheel version. What is certain is that it is a 2nd Kompanie Panther but I have no idea which one.

The reason I thought that it was #221 was because of a colour plate on page 39 (G1) of Ardennes 1944 Peiper & Skorzeny. The colour plate resembles the photo on page 49. However this colour plate shows the Panther to be a Steel Wheel version. The Panther in question is not a Steel Wheel version. So, it must not be #221.

Has anyone seen similar photos? Is it possible to identify this Panther? I am very interested as to the identity of this Panther and the Panther Commander. I wonder if anyone has any other photos or anything or any way to identify this Panther’s Callsign or Panther Commander.

Thank you all in advance!

Cheers,

Jon

Hi Jon,

I believe I have some info at home from Agte's books and other sources about this Panther in Stoumont. I agree that it's not 221. Will look at home a send a better reply tonight.

Regards,
Greg

Thank you very much Greg!

I look forward to your next reply!

Cheers,

Jon

Jon,
Sorry, I was unable to positively identify this Panther. As you said, it was not 221. I thought that Patrick Agte's book "Jochen Peiper: Kommandeur Panzerregiment Leibstandarte" told who the commander of this tank was, but it doesn't.

Agte says the first Panther into Stoumont was 223 of SS-Rottenführer Prahm. This was the one knocked out beside the Robinson house by the US 90mm antiaircraft gun. The tank you're asking about was one of the following Panthers. Agte said some of the following tanks were those of SS-Oberscharführer Ropeter, SS-Hauptscharführer Knappich and SS-Unterscharführer Brauschke, but he doesn't give the numbers of their tanks. I can't tell the rank of the tank commander you're talking about from looking at the SS-Kriegsberichter film.

It's possible that the tank in question was 211. It was one of the three 2. Kompanie tanks knocked out at Stoumont station (Peiper's farthest advance). In a photo taken after the war, the right front fender of 211 is bent like the right front fender of the tank you're talking about (as seen in the SS-Kriegberichter film), but that's slim evidence.

Wish I could have found out more.

Greg:(

Hey Greg!

Hey, hey! I think you are right! I have a picture, that a kind fellow sent me of Panther #211, a few days after it was knocked out outside of Stoumont near the railway station. You are right, the right front fender is bent in exactly the same way as the Panther I am wondering about. What are the chances of two different Panther, in the same area, having this same feature?

I never noticed this before because I never looked closely at this Panther because all of the foliage and stuff is off of it. I should have known that all of the extras could have been taken off of the tank, especially many days after being knocked out.

I think you have helped way more than you are giving yourself credit for! This is the first bit of concrete evidence suggesting this Panther callsign that I have seen since first trying to figure this out! I think that you are correct, Panther #211 may be the one! Thanks again!

Now, I am going to try to find out who commanded #211! :)

Cheers,

Jon

Jon,
I'll do some more looking, there are a couple of German books that I only scanned last night.

Now, ask about s. SS-Pz.Abt. 501 in the Ardennes, and I can do it!

Greg

I appreciate that Greg! I have looked through all the books that I have and haven't been able to find much of anything. Thank you very much again for all your help!

Cheers,

Jon

Hey Greg!

Apparently the commander of Panther #211 was an Untersturmfuhrer Hubert Kaufmann. Unfortunately I can find very little amount of information on this guy. I wonder if Kaufmann was killed when his Panther was knocked near the Stoumont Station? I can not find any details.

I posted a question in the OOB and Individual Research Section, hopefully someone can find out more about this fellow.

Cheers,

Jon

I would like to go through everything that I have gathered so far. I am going to share all of this for the benefit of all those who have helped me get this far! Timo, Juha, Greg Walden, Rouille and Mike Miller.

For everyone:

I have several photos and some footage of a Panther approaching Stoumont on December 19, 1944. This Panther seems to be Panther #211 commanded by Untersturmfuhrer Hubert Kaufmann. Several other Panthers can be seen in the background of some of the photos and footage. I cannot identify them but I can make an educated guess. They all seem to be 2nd Kompanie Panthers.

The first Panther into Stoumont, #223 of Rottenfuhrer Prahn, is knocked out and Panther #221 of Hauptscharfuhrer Heinz Knappich is damaged but still usable. The German Panthers and Panzergrenadiers take Stoumont from the U.S. forces. I have a few photos of a Panther that seems to be #211 on it's way through Stoumont. This is the same Panther seen earlier, the commander, the foliage and other objects are similar. Also seen is a bent right front fender.

Now, the Panthers head out of Stoumont on their way to the Railroad Station, which is near a small village called Targnon. On the way there, the U.S. troops retreating from Stoumont, set up an ambush along the road and Panther #225 of Oberscharfuhrer Ropeter is knocked out. Panther #221 rescues some of the crew. The rest of the Panthers continue on.

As they are reaching the village and Railroad Station they are met by U.S. troops who have dug in. Three Panthers are knocked out and the rest retreat to Stoumont. From photos I can see that Panther #211 was one of these three Panthers. It has some leftover foliage and the bent right front fender seen in earlier photos. An educated guess can be made to perhaps identify the other two Panthers.

From the info Timo provided we see that four Panther commanders were killed and one wounded that day in that area. Assuming that they were in their respective Panthers we can speculate which Panthers were there. Prahn and Ropeter are accounted for. Kaufmann was in Panther #211. This is the one that started this entire search for me! This leaves Unterscharfuhrer Brauschke and Unterscharfuhrer Kruger. Kruger was in Panther #215 and Brauschke was in either #233 or #234, I am not sure.

Research is amazing is it not? This all started when I was curious about the identity of a Panther commander. I identified this man as Untersturmfuhrer Hubert Kaufmann, commander of Panther #211. He was born in Kufstein on August 2, 1919. He was a Rottenfuhrer in the 9th Kompanie of LSSAH in May of 1940. By July of 1944 he was an Untersturmfuhrer in the 2nd Panzer Kompanie of LSSAH. In December of 1944 he was still in the 2nd Kompanie and commanding Panther #211. The battles around Stoumont were to be the end for this relatively unknown soldier. Now he is known and identified.

Glimpses of Hubert Kaufmann and Panther #211 can be found here:

-page 49 of Ardennes 1944 Peiper & Skorzeny by Jean Paul Pallud, this shows a close-up of the Panther Commander in the turret.

-page 50 of the same book shows a side/rear view of the same Panther.

-page 99 of The Leibstandarte Volume IV/2 shows the same Panther from the front going through Stoumont.

-Several Documentaries that I have seen on the History Channel and such have shown footage from the Ardennes (captured rolls of film from an SS War Photographer) and in this footage I have seen the same scenes as these photos.

When analyzing all of these photos one can see this is all the same Panther. The picture of Panther #211 knocked out near the Railroad Station is easy, with the foliage moved away; we can clearly see the number 211. The bent right front fender, the oversized rain guard and netting to hold on foliage can also be seen in this photo.

Many other features become identifiable after close inspection of the other available pictures. The oversized rain guard over the gun mantlet, the bent right front fender, and the rather abundant amount of foliage especially one long branch tilted up in the air. One can almost imagine the netting lying underneath all the foliage.

When one looks at the Panther commander himself several features become identifiable in the different pictures. His headset is seen worn tilted back in all the pictures, he is holding a pair of binoculars, you can see part of the rain guard to the left of him, the same rather long tilted branch seen to his right.

Thank you everyone for your help! Thanks go out to: Timo, Juha, Greg Walden, Rouille, Mike Miller and everyone else that I might have forgotten to mention, all of your help has helped me solve this mystery!

Cheers,

Jon Fitzgerald
Calgary,AB,Canada

Jon,
Great research on 211. Thanks for enlightening me!

If you need any more Panther photos from KG Peiper's route, I think I have most if not all that have been published, and few that haven't been.

Thanks,
Greg

Hey Greg!

You have some more Panther pics from Kampfgruppe Peiper? Hey, yes :), I will always accept more pics, one can always use more pics! Hey, maybe I will try to identify another Panther Commander in a pic! ;)

Cheers,

Jon

Hi Jon,

Do you have these books?

"Battle of the Bulge Then and Now" by Jean Paul Pallud (published by After the Battle) has the photo of 211 down by the Stoumont rail station after the battle, one left in La Gleize that appears to be 202, and some others.

"Les Panzer de Peiper face a l'US Army" and "Feu-Fire-Feuer-Vuur" by Gérard Grégoire, founder and curator of the December 1944 Museum in La Gleize. Both these books have many photos of the KG Peiper vehicles after the battle, including 215 also knocked out down by the Stoumont station (near 211), 234 left at Stoumont, 131 knocked out by US aircraft on 18 December on the road from La Gleize to Cheneux, 202 abandoned in La Gleize, some others that you can't read the turret numbers, and some stills taken from the SS-Kriegsberichter film that shows 211 moving into Stoumont.

"Stavelot 40/45," a catalog of a photo exhibition put on by the Stavelot public library in 1984-85. This has a photo of a Panther that you can't see the turret number knocked out on the Vieux-Château road near Stavelot. I have another unpublished shot of this Panther that I got in Stavelot.

Have you seen the whole SS-Kriegsberichter film that has 211 in it? There's a short sequence of a Panther on the road from La Gleize to Stoumont, but it's off in the distance and I can't read the turret number.

PM me if you want any of these scanned, and I can get to it.

Regards,
Greg

Action at Stoumont Station
 

Hi
I believe the tank commander to be Uscha.Rech (214) not Kaufmann(211). The cine shows Rech wearing the binoculars around his neck. Rech was using a scissors telescope to improve his vision within the cupola. If you notice the starboard front fender has a distictive perforation at the bottom outside corner. This panther was later abandoned in La Gleize. The first tanks out of Stoumont towards Stoumont Station were : 222(Ropeter),201(Christ),231(Koch,221(Knappich),21 5(Kruger).The tanks of Kaufmann(211) and Brauschke(232)and Kruger(215) were knocked out WEST of Stoumont Station at around 1325. Hope this helps. If you have any questions please e-mail at douggrowe@yahoo.com. Thanks.

Yes , It is 214 ( Unterscharfuhrer Rech). I would recommend you pick up

"Duel in the Mist" The Leibstandarte during the Ardennes offensive.
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Cheers Steve

wow i love rreading this history wish we could see the pics ur talikg about