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-   -   Canteens (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23407)

05-19-2003 07:48 AM

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cup, it's very greasy ( weapongrease) inside, probably done by a collector before me to prevent rust...

Michael Kuligowski 05-19-2003 09:17 AM

hello Jan !!!
picture You posted with HJ type canteen in 44 - is not showing this type of canteen !! look at the straps and cover - strap has a buckle at the front to catch cup.. and cover has leather loops at the front - Examine pictures again !! :) Strap around neck of the bottlew might be some field modification - after soldier lost cup.. or something like that.. ?

PS nice late canteen :) I will try to post my friend's v. late canteens made in blue enamel in a canvas cover...

05-19-2003 10:12 AM

Quote:

Examine pictures again !! Strap around neck of the bottlew might be some field modification - after soldier lost cup.. or something like that..
You're correct Mike, my eyes were fixed on the leather strap around the neck of the canteen. I was judging to quick ::, nevertheless is this indeed probably some sort of fieldmade variation...

cheers

Jan

Infanteer 05-19-2003 11:26 AM

IMO, I don't think that there is any modification at all. It looks to me that the strap intended for holding the cup has simply been wrapped around the neck of the canteen and then buckled as per normal in order to help hold it secure.

Cheers,

Steve

Colorado 05-20-2003 03:29 AM

I have about 20 canteens and have seen hundreds. On the metal ones I only collect matching numbers. For what it's worth, the cupless models are just as correct as the cup models and my understanding is the cup was carried in the breadbag. The aluminum cups are nearly identical to ones from other German eras and the only way to determine positively wartime issue is if they are maker marked. I only have 2 like that.

It looks like some of the models pictured here have cups that are not original issue. The large 1 liter seem to have bakelite cups normally. Usually, one can tell by the length of the leather on the strap and indentations on the wool. You can throw that out on late war, where all bets are off.

The cupless models are not commonly seen later in the war except in the HJ models. Most I have run across are from the pre-war years. So, both models enjoyed production at the same time. Just as the steel body and aluminum body, bakelite cup and metal cup all were produced at the same time. I have not seen a late war cupless model. Has anyone else?

The HJ models are smaller and I have two that are RZM marked, but have seen them maker marked too. One is unit marked. The wool covering is completely difeerent than than the rough wool on the combat canteen.

There is no pattern is the pattern. Just my 2 cents.

05-20-2003 08:46 AM

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Thanks Colorado for your detailed input, now...

Quote:

The HJ models are smaller and I have two that are RZM marked
Could you post a picture of these? So we can compare with the ones posted before.

Quote:

The large 1 liter seem to have bakelite cups normally
the one below has a matching cup - date and maker-stamp -( SSL 40) and is made of thin aluminium. Also the first Willi posted is has also an aluminium cup.Any ideas?


Kind regards

Jan

Colorado 05-20-2003 08:56 AM

My medical canteen has a matched cup and canteen just like yours Jan. Mine is marked on the retaining band. Mine is the lighter brown color though (1937?) and earlier production than yours. Mine is just like Willi's.


I have most of my gear packed for my move back to the USA, so I will check.

Michael Kuligowski 05-20-2003 09:09 AM

hello !!
Colorado (is that the place you live ?? been there in Cortez - near Messa Verde - beautiful State !@!) I have question - can you post picture of ?HJ canteen (Jan already asked about that).

What you say is that my cup less canteen is army "no cup" canteen ?? did I understand correct ?? and this is just one of army canteens used early in the war ???

And a HJ canteen is a different 3rd type ?? (I counted 3 types - army with cup, without cup and HJ - I don't count medical and mountain)

if Yes - then we have some conclusion finally :)

Colorado 05-20-2003 11:55 AM

Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will send a side by side comparison shot for you to post for me.

Willi Z. 05-20-2003 07:30 PM

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Ok guys, what are these? Have always been torn on what they are...HJ or Luft. The one on the left is '39 dated, the one on the right is '42 dated. The one on the left was also bluegray, but has faded badly, can see the color inside and under the straps.

Willi

Michael Kuligowski 05-21-2003 04:32 AM

Hello !!
Here are pictures posted to me by Colorado. I think would be the best if Jeff will describe them by Him self :)

PS Willi - hmm.. :confused: :confused: i have to think about it.. maybe you have your own theory ?
PS2 Willi - I love your collection... really.. You have ultimate examples of field gear... :eek:

http://www.militaria.gamesweek.pl/hjheer1.jpg
http://www.militaria.gamesweek.pl/hjheer2.jpg

Colorado 05-21-2003 05:32 AM

Hi Willi:

Thanks Mike for posting. As you can see by mine the one on the left is HJ and pre-war. This is my theory only from observation, so take it for what it's worth. You do not see ones like my left one during the war years with the tan felt. The one on the right is also pre-war.

I was told by an former HJ member that once the war started, they used ones like you show and they were not RZM marked. That is if they had any at all. The ones like my left one, were passed down from other members and are often beat-up. They are hard to find in good condition like this.

The blue ones are for Flak helper formations is the story I am told. I have a real tiny (.5 liter?) canteen that is certainly HJ and it is brown wool and 1941 dated.

I have not seen a Wehrmacht "Luftwaffe canteen". My understanding is they wore the same as the Heer.

Like I said this is only my observations.

Kai-Steffen M. 05-21-2003 08:03 AM

ok- those canteens shown in the last two posts by willi and colorado look very similar (i would the the same) like the one i got from my grandfather...
i asked him yesterday when and where he got his- he got his during his time in the RAD 1938/39 and just had to keep it and continue using it when he got into the wehrmacht (he never was in the HJ)... it is marked WWE34..

Gruß,
KSM

05-21-2003 09:17 AM

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Okay, guys, this is a very interesting discussion, but what about those enamel canteens, I would like to learn a little bit more about them...

Mike, you told me that a friend of your's has a bleu one. Would like to see it!

Are there any other colors known? Is an enamel canteen automaticaly ' late war'?

Here's a picture of the body, marked GNI, but no date is found on it!

cheers

Jan

05-21-2003 09:18 AM

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