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-   -   Canteens (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23407)

05-16-2003 09:35 AM

Hello Kuligow, you 've got a point there, but IMO merdock's canteen has lost the cup.

When you look at the first picture of it, you notice the difference in color of the feltcover, where the cup should be in place?

And yes, HJ used ' cupless';) canteens, but these were smaller and normally RZM marked, no?

Just my opinion off course...I could be wrong



cheers

Jan

Infanteer 05-16-2003 09:50 AM

I will have to agree that Merdock's canteen never had a cup. The straps are of a style that does not allow for the retention of a cup. Also, it has the extra strap around the neck of the bottle that a canteen with a cup does not have. I can see where it "may" appear that a cup was sitting at one time but when you consider the uneven staining on the whole front of the cover you realize that it is just that, a stain, and not the shadow of a cup IMO.

Steve

Michael Kuligowski 05-16-2003 10:25 AM

Thank You Jan !! Thank You Steve !!
Maybe.. we are victims of small manipulation - if there is a "shadow" on the cover left by cup - maybe cover comes from a different canteen - and was replaced looooong time ago ??? !?
I think we should have additional photos - naps were different in the HJ and army cover. Army cover have characteristic cross - HJ naps are blank painted black - like these on my canteen
Straps are 100% from HJ "np cup type" canteen.

05-16-2003 01:26 PM

Thanks Mike and Steve for clearing this out!

Mike, is it correct that there should always be a RZM-marking on HJ canteens and other gear...

merdock 05-16-2003 03:00 PM

Hi,
Just looked at the canteen again and it appears never to have had a cup ,forgive me if i appear a little confused but how does the cup fit over the strap attached to the stopper ?can someone show me a canteen with the cup removed for comparasion.
Also my canteen is marked 13 WR in faint ink any ideas on this.
All the best Merdock

Kai-Steffen M. 05-16-2003 07:24 PM

ok- my granddads canteen (original for sure- army for sure) looks very similar to merdocks- brown cover (it has shrinked- i cant close the two "druckknopf" on top - there are 4) and is marked WWE 34- there is no strap for a cup and there has never been a cup on it says my granddad- i can post bpics as soon as my digicam works..its condition is not very good though- it has been in constant use all the years- first my granddad used it when going hiking into the alps- then i used it for school excursion and the like...

Gruß,
KSM

Infanteer 05-16-2003 07:26 PM

Hi Merdock,

I understand your confusion because as I pointed out, your style of canteen was not made to be used with a cup. It is impossible to place a cup on the top without covering the hook. I can't post a photo but the canteens with the cup have a different leather strap configuration. I'm sure that someone can post a photo that will make it clear for you.

Steve

Michael Kuligowski 05-17-2003 09:09 AM

Steve, I am posting picture You wrote about - straps for "HJ" type (bottom picture) and army type with cup.
I am not sure about RZM's Jan.... I never had any canteen like that.. I also don't think that HJ canteens were smaller- maybe you have some pictures of it ?
http://www.militaria.gamesweek.pl/zap.jpg

05-17-2003 10:11 AM

Mike, I said that HJ-canteens were smaller, based on description that sellers gave on these canteens, I saw some dealers selling smaller canteens then the standard m31, and they told me that this were HJ issue.
I know zero about HJ, but I thought that some members could confirm this. I haven't got HJ-reference-pictures, maybe someone else...

Anyway, thanks for clearing this out! I still have to learn alot...

ps : But if I'm right they still had a seperate aluminium cup in their breadbag, no?

cheers

Jan

Infanteer 05-17-2003 12:42 PM

Kuligow - thanks for the excellent photos. It would have been difficult to describe the straps.

Jan - You are correct (as far as I know), the cupless style of canteen was often issued with a separate unpainted aluminum cup identical to those used during the first world war.

Since we are on the subject, I have a late war enamel canteen that I need a cup for. Can anyone direct me to where I can find one?

Cheers,

Steve

Michael Kuligowski 05-18-2003 09:45 AM

Steve !! what color of enamel Your centeen is ???? grey ?? blue ?? green ?? maybe I can find matching cup...
no problem about pictures :) you welcom :)

Willi Z. 05-18-2003 09:54 AM

Many photos of Fallschirmjäger on Kreta in 1941 show them wearing canteens without cups......they were not setup for cups, in the same way as some of the ones posted above. I have two canteens (1 pre-war and 1 1941) that have blue covers and not setup for cups. Have always wondered of they were HJ or Luftwaffe. Will try to dig them out and post photos.

Willi

Infanteer 05-18-2003 06:47 PM

Kuligow - my canteen has red enamel on both the body and lid. I have seen a number of examples of cups for this style of canteen that have red enamel inside and a green finish on the outside. I think this would be the preferable one to get. An aluminum cup would work as a filler until an enamel one turns up. Besides, it never hurts to have an extra cup, just in case:D . If you can help me out that would be great! :)

Steve

05-19-2003 07:41 AM

canteens update
 
1 Attachment(s)
This picture shows that the ' HJ'-pattern canteen was also used by regular combat troops. The canteen on the background is the normal style, the one on the foreground is the HJ-style with different strap construction.

(Picture was taken during operation ' Bagration' summer 44)

cheers

Jan

05-19-2003 07:47 AM

1 Attachment(s)
This is my red enamelled canteen, both cup and body - I will post some pictures of the body later on...


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